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02-06-2013, 12:26 PM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You cut the part in which I said I would buy a Pentax one; was that intentional?
Yes, I left out the part where you said that you MOST LIKELY would buy one. To focus on the contradiction. The underlined part says enough.

02-06-2013, 12:32 PM   #317
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QuoteOriginally posted by sandilands Quote
Nope. Just too much experience in business and seeing what happens to rudderless ships.
- hp retiree
Ah, well, given that experience, I don't wonder at your comment. As I said previously, HP allowed themselves to get stuck in a market with an increasing number of low-cost players, for which they had no answer but to try to emulate. To be sure, they had some specialist product lines outside that area, but no mass market cash cow to justify the size of the company, and shrinking it wasn't an option their egos could probably contemplate.

However, to go to your point, I don't think Apple can be described as rudderless, just because it doesn't have a difficult personality at the helm, anymore. You could say the same of Ricoh, because few people would know the names of their executive leadership, but, unlike HP and like Apple, they've got a profitable main product line or two, even if their big cash generator isn't in their camera divisions.

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 02-06-2013 at 02:12 PM.
02-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Yes, I left out the part where you said that you MOST LIKELY would buy one. To focus on the contradiction. The underlined part says enough.
Oh, I see - you're just trolling. No point in feeding you, then.

L.E. I see no logical path from most likely buying a product (while nothing is known about it) to not being interested in it, and even more, the poll voters not being interested in it. Thus, it must be trolling.

Last edited by Kunzite; 02-06-2013 at 01:12 PM.
02-06-2013, 01:07 PM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You ask a question that you answered yourself seconds ago. You do not really want an FF DSLR, but you promote Pentax to build one anyway. How many of those poll voters voted for FF DSLR despite the fact they not even interested?
Lol, my guess would be most of them. The whole FF thing on here is mentally unbalanced. I mean, if you want it that bad then it's not rocket science to go to one of the outfits which offers it, right now. If it's a case of "quite nice to have it as an option" then I'd say you don't really want it. No wonder those Pentax staffers look unwell whenever the subject arises. If at some stage Pentax build a knock-out FF cam, maybe in a few years, then I expect some folks will be sorely tempted even if they don't really need one. Can't see why folks won't let it rest till then or if the Jonesing is that urgent go see Mr Canonikon. Any money left over maybe best spent on a shrink.

02-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #320
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I'd say the FF dSLR will be exponentially more successful that what the recent poll suggests. The poll was not designed to gather absolute figures (that would be futile) but rather be representative enough to get useful relative figures. And it's pretty clear the next enthusiast camera on Pentaxians' minds is a FF dSLR. And Pentax will be delivering this soon.
02-06-2013, 01:36 PM   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lol, my guess would be most of them. The whole FF thing on here is mentally unbalanced. I mean, if you want it that bad then it's not rocket science to go to one of the outfits which offers it, right now. If it's a case of "quite nice to have it as an option" then I'd say you don't really want it. No wonder those Pentax staffers look unwell whenever the subject arises. If at some stage Pentax build a knock-out FF cam, maybe in a few years, then I expect some folks will be sorely tempted even if they don't really need one. Can't see why folks won't let it rest till then or if the Jonesing is that urgent go see Mr Canonikon. Any money left over maybe best spent on a shrink.
I think it is simple. Pentax has and continues to sell very nice lenses that are full frame compatible. Many of us own them and like Pentax bodies and would like a full frame body to mount one on.

I am actually in the same situation as Kunzite, in that I will stick with Pentax, even if they only offer APS-C bodies, but that I would happily buy a full frame body from them as well (I am saving for one right now). I don't want full frame enough to dump my Pentax gear for a D800 and lenses that would satisfy (would be pretty expensive to get a Nikon equivalent of the FA limiteds).
02-06-2013, 01:50 PM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
I'd say the FF dSLR will be exponentially more successful that what the recent poll suggests. The poll was not designed to gather absolute figures (that would be futile) but rather be representative enough to get useful relative figures. And it's pretty clear the next enthusiast camera on Pentaxians' minds is a FF dSLR. And Pentax will be delivering this soon.
Is that a good assumption? This is a Pentax board, where folks have a collection of K-Mount glass. Within that community, I have no doubt a DSLR would fare better than a MILC offering.
But if you look at the market as a whole, where the majority of users don't have K-mount lenses and don't care about the k-mount, why would they choose a k-mount DSLR as opposed to an established brand they know, ie Canon or Nikon? What will differentiate Pentax from the other 2?

A bigger question: Did Ricoh purchase Pentax to satisfy the tiny existing Pentax user base? Or did they buy Pentax to grow the brand?
02-06-2013, 01:55 PM   #323
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I hope both

02-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Zygonyx: They are three coequal risks, but the only one of the three Ricoh can control.
...
Right, also the one that is therefore avo´dable with a dose of commonsense + good marketing + sales network building

For the rest of your reply, i think you may have some knowledge i don't have, but in fact good businesses are good in their own purpose, they don't need goldenboys' evaluations to thrive. Or should they. But that's another debate..
02-06-2013, 02:02 PM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I hope both
I have my doubts that is possible. For Pentax to actually grow, they will have to offer something that the big 2 don't have. It is not enough to offer a solid, user friendly DSLR. Hoya did that and it did not result in growing the brand.
If Ricoh wants Pentax to tread water, and is not interested in becoming bigger, then the status quo is ok. Nothing is inherently wrong with that, heck, i love my setup. But I already have Pentax stuff. It's a different ballgame when you are luring customers to the brand.
02-06-2013, 02:08 PM   #326
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They will also have to strenghten what competitors have at most powerfull : marketing and sales network, as i said already.
Needless to say competitive cost-structure and innovative R&D are the basics of the whole story.
02-06-2013, 02:10 PM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lol, my guess would be most of them. The whole FF thing on here is mentally unbalanced. I mean, if you want it that bad then it's not rocket science to go to one of the outfits which offers it, right now. If it's a case of "quite nice to have it as an option" then I'd say you don't really want it. No wonder those Pentax staffers look unwell whenever the subject arises. If at some stage Pentax build a knock-out FF cam, maybe in a few years, then I expect some folks will be sorely tempted even if they don't really need one. Can't see why folks won't let it rest till then or if the Jonesing is that urgent go see Mr Canonikon. Any money left over maybe best spent on a shrink.
Ooh, a low blow there!

Those who have succumbed to the siren call of the other-party offerings, and who still contribute here, are possible returns (some have said as much) while others have different (and honourable) motives for supporting a Pentax entry, in spite of having no present intention of buying one. One of those is that the future of DSLRs probably lies there, so at some point they'll buy anyway, and another that it helps to secure the future of the company, by offering product across the range of its competitors.

Let's be clear on one thing we are largely united on: we like the way Pentax has produced cameras and lenses in the past (everything is in the past, so let's not make too much of that, and no quibbles about the Q and the K-01, because recent history shows that the initial problem was price, not product) and we expect that they will do so in the future. Whether they live up to that expectation remains to be seen, but let's not pre-judge harshly.
02-06-2013, 02:27 PM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Is that a good assumption? This is a Pentax board, where folks have a collection of K-Mount glass. Within that community, I have no doubt a DSLR would fare better than a MILC offering.
But if you look at the market as a whole, where the majority of users don't have K-mount lenses and don't care about the k-mount, why would they choose a k-mount DSLR as opposed to an established brand they know, ie Canon or Nikon? What will differentiate Pentax from the other 2?

A bigger question: Did Ricoh purchase Pentax to satisfy the tiny existing Pentax user base? Or did they buy Pentax to grow the brand?
Why should we avoid asking existing Pentax customers? They are the ones most likely to buy more advanced/expensive Pentax products. Why would it be a better idea to ask those who don't care about the K-mount and see no reason to jump to the K-mount?
If we'd look at the market as a whole, DSLRs are still largely preferred to MILCs, by the way.

Your bigger question implies there are two mutually exclusive directions, which IMHO is untrue.
It is both possible and desirable to satisfy the Pentax user base (as in: keeping us happy and spending) and growing it. Actually, any new user would join the Pentax user base and will have to be kept happy and spending.
IMHO existing users are very valuable, and I'm not talking about users ready to jump ship to whichever system is the cheapest, but those wanting to spend more $$$ on photographic equipment.
02-06-2013, 02:38 PM   #329
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Did the K10D attract any new users to Pentax or was it just for people who had a bunch of lenses in the closet?
02-06-2013, 02:51 PM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Why should we avoid asking existing Pentax customers? They are the ones most likely to buy more advanced/expensive Pentax products. Why would it be a better idea to ask those who don't care about the K-mount and see no reason to jump to the K-mount?
If we'd look at the market as a whole, DSLRs are still largely preferred to MILCs, by the way.

Your bigger question implies there are two mutually exclusive directions, which IMHO is untrue.
It is both possible and desirable to satisfy the Pentax user base (as in: keeping us happy and spending) and growing it. Actually, any new user would join the Pentax user base and will have to be kept happy and spending.
IMHO existing users are very valuable, and I'm not talking about users ready to jump ship to whichever system is the cheapest, but those wanting to spend more $$$ on photographic equipment.
If you are interested in buying a full frame, $2500 camera, more than likely you are not some newbie snapshooter. If you are willing to spend 2 months rent on a camera, you probably already have a DSLR, which means you already own a Sony, Canon, Pentax or Nikon. Even your sig reads "One does not simply change one's mount..." That being the case, this prospective full frame customer already has some gear. What would be the reason's for this prospective customer to switch from the others to Pentax? Cost - It would have to a good amount cheaper, with better specs to entice one to switch mounts. But in my opinion, that is not reasonable. I think it will be similar to the competition in price. Size - Same as above. Pentax may make a FF DSLR a good amount smaller than the competitors, think the difference between 7D and K-5. But if you are invested in a system, it will take more than size for someone to switch. Once you get into FF realm, there is large, and less large. System - Flash, accessories, 3rd party support. Pentax has a lot of catching up to do here.

Edit - Sorry for the font differences...i copied and pasted your sig which changed my settings, lol.
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