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02-10-2013, 01:25 AM - 2 Likes   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Pentax has to figure out what to do with its excellent APS-C lenses and bodies.
Having spent years working with camera formats ranging from 13"X19" Ultra large format to APS-C* I cannot see anything fundamentally wrong with it**, certainly FX format cameras have a slight advantage - and are going to continue to hold an advantage over smaller sensors I don't see why APS-C should be abandoned. Some people have no Idea how much smaller DX sized zoom lenses really are compared to their FF sensor covering lenses. The 16-50mm f/2.8 isn't anywhere near as large as say the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L is - that lens is a brick,include a 1DsMK III and that adds up to three bricks and that lens still doesn't have IS.




* APS-C being the smallest format I have ever worked with professionally.

**However I will admit I'm prejudiced against 4/3 cameras, there is no way in hell I would be caught using one: the ergonomics just don't agree with me, the sensors aren't any better than APS-C, the lenses are reasonably good - but my general impression is that it is just a dead end consumer oriented format.


Last edited by Digitalis; 02-10-2013 at 08:12 AM.
02-10-2013, 02:36 AM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Having spent years working with camera formats ranging from 13"X19" Ultra large format to APS-C* I cannot see anything fundamentally wrong with it**, certainly FX format have a slight advantage - and are going to continue to hold an advantage over smaller sensors I don't see why APS-C should be abandoned. Some people have no Idea how much smaller DX sized zoom lenses really are compared to their FF sensor covering lenses. The 16-50mm f/2.8 isn't anywhere near as large as say the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L is - that lens is a brick,include a 1DsMK III and that adds up to three bricks and that lens still doesn't have IS.




*the smallest format I have ever worked with professionally.

**However I will admit I'm prejudiced against 4/3 cameras, there is no way in hell I would be caught using one: the ergonomics just don't agree with me, the sensors aren't any better than APS-C, the lenses are reasonably good - but my general impression is that it is just a dead end consumer oriented format.
I globally agee with your position re. APS-C.
Nevertheless, you should consider holding some Panasonic GH-3 and appropriate pany or oly pancake lenses : that might change a bit your statement re. m.4/3 ergonomy and image quality
02-10-2013, 03:21 AM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Which is why some of us send 70's mechanical film cameras for a CLA and use Takumar and K-series lenses to shoot film.
Some of us haven't gotten the memo (I'm one of them), but the world as a whole is pretty much going the route of the throwaway. I agree completely with your statement about the '80s being where things went a bit south--mostly the latter half. Another part of that was that Pentax (and others) started making a lot of SLR bodies which were more likely to be discarded. The Super Program seems to be the last body released until the 21st Century which was worth sending for a CLA.
02-10-2013, 05:41 AM   #454
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ROFL. I took a small break from my photography and I come back to find that Pentax is now openly considering FF. I was impressed, and the gear addict in me was getting pretty excited. So I have a look at the news forum and things are no different than when I last looked. Every pentaxian and their dog is out waving their arms in the air. Some see visions of the end of Pentax, others see a long-awaited answer to old prayers and some are sceptical that anything will really change.

Personally I am excited, but I know FF will be a while away so I will be expecting to see a new APS-C before then. Either way, Pentoh wants my money...they want as much money from as many people as they can get. So fear not, Pentoh will do its very best to come up with things that will get us to open our wallets. Bring it on!

02-10-2013, 05:47 AM   #455
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OK, but it needs more changes than only FF and next photo features... today is necessary to change electronics of DSLR/mirrorless ILC and to develop it by modern computers components such as tablets are made and with all tablets' possibilities ... to work with modularity like Asus Padphone 2 and Ricoh GXR etc.
02-10-2013, 05:52 AM   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
....

**However I will admit I'm prejudiced against 4/3 cameras, there is no way in hell I would be caught using one: the ergonomics just don't agree with me, the sensors aren't any better than APS-C, the lenses are reasonably good - but my general impression is that it is just a dead end consumer oriented format.
Despite having a "dead end consumer oriented format", the Oly E-M5 was voted Camera of the Year by DPR's readers.
02-10-2013, 06:17 AM   #457
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And popularity contests are relevant, how exactly?
02-10-2013, 06:18 AM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
Pentax has recently had major issues with build quaity in a number of their items. The "original" K-5 had significant issues with sensor burn. There are a number of the higher end Pentax branded lens (some wel above 1k in price) that also have significant issues with both items such as; sdm failure, zoom lock, even complete focus lock - including manual.

But that's not the worst part... The worst is; that Pentax has not adequately addressed most of these issues
Well, the sensor problems with stains and more affected all of K-5, D700 and A77 so it's hardly a Pentax issue. The SDM problems on the other hand is probably the most damaging thing to the Pentax quality in the eyes of the customers. All brands have duds and many of them, just check this link out and you will see all of the problems you mentioned above but for other brands.
LensRentals.com - Lensrentals Repair Data: January – July 2012
LensRentals.com - Lens Repair Data 2011
Also note how long service times Nikon, Sony and Zeiss have and niether Voigtlander nor Rokinon even managed to rapair lenses within 60 days! I'm spoiled by the Pentax service here in Sweden with their goal of 3-4 days for service, something they've managed to stay within for both me and my brother!

So I don't really see why Pentax is so much worse than other makers in your eyes.

02-10-2013, 07:01 AM - 1 Like   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Oly E-M5 was voted Camera of the Year by DPR's readers
do you know what percentage of DPR's readership are working professionals? I couldn't care less what decorative fluff DPR doles out to camera manufacturers, the 4/3 system is just a dead end. I know at least 30 working professionals who use DX format DSLR cameras- many of them are very successful commercially. I don't know a single photographer who works commercially with the 4/3 system.
02-10-2013, 07:34 AM   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
Well, the sensor problems with stains and more affected all of K-5, D700 and A77 so it's hardly a Pentax issue. The SDM problems on the other hand is probably the most damaging thing to the Pentax quality in the eyes of the customers. All brands have duds and many of them, just check this link out and you will see all of the problems you mentioned above but for other brands.
LensRentals.com - Lensrentals Repair Data: January – July 2012
LensRentals.com - Lens Repair Data 2011
Also note how long service times Nikon, Sony and Zeiss have and niether Voigtlander nor Rokinon even managed to rapair lenses within 60 days! I'm spoiled by the Pentax service here in Sweden with their goal of 3-4 days for service, something they've managed to stay within for both me and my brother!

So I don't really see why Pentax is so much worse than other makers in your eyes.
Some people just like to complain. If there's no reason to complain in their own lives, they read about other people who have had problems, and take on their complaints. Soon, they are looking at the issues world wide and complaining about every little thing that happens anywhere in the world. The ones who get paid we call "news reporters", the ones who don't get paid "Pentax critics". The odd thing is, how odd they seem to view those of us who are basically happy with the state of the world, who buy stuff knowing that we may get a lemon, no matter what we buy from where, who buy the extended warranty for stuff we want but may not be able to replace out of pocket if it fails. My Henry's warranty says, three repairs and I get a new one, the third time it goes in for repair, anytime within the 3 years of the warranty."

I listened to all the bitching on here about SDM, and bought a DA*60-250, and didn't buy the extended warranty. It's looking like a pretty good decision. There were people on here who suggested I was pretty crazy. Now they'll say I was lucky. They are always right, even when they're wrong.

Some people are born with a god given right to complain. It must be in the constitution somewhere,

You have options people. Maybe none that you like, but options.

The best way to guard against SDM failure in the DA* 16-50 is a Tamron 17-50 as a back up. One probably doesn't cost much more than the extended warranty. I paid less than $400 for mine. You get better IQ while you Pentax lens is away for repair. That should make you happy, even thought the 16-50 will make you grumpy.

When I go to homeless neighbourhoods I never take more money in my pocket than I can happily give away. Use the same philosophy going into a camera store. Decide what amount you can afford to give to the "homeless camera manufacturers" , they'll be sitting in the camera stores with their hands out. Realize that whatever they sell you, it's not going to last forever and be happy for every day you have use of it. If it fails, you know enough about it to decide if you're going to replace it. There are great non-SDM lenses, no one forced you to buy SDM. You learned something. Learning something is worth something, and isn't always cheap. Be happy with what you learn, but don't obsess on your disappointments.
02-10-2013, 07:56 AM   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
do you know what percentage of DPR's readership are working professionals? I couldn't care less what decorative fluff DPR doles out to camera manufacturers, the 4/3 system is just a dead end. I know at least 30 working professionals who use DX format DSLR cameras- many of them are very successful commercially. I don't know a single photographer who works commercially with the 4/3 system.
Along the same lines, I was at 4 weddings in 3 different over the last couple of years. In only one, was the hired pro schlepping FX behemoths. If anything, the trend seems to me to be going the other way toward DX/APS-C. Perhaps it is the economic times. I haven't seen any 4/3, though.

Last edited by GeneV; 02-10-2013 at 08:12 AM.
02-10-2013, 08:23 AM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Some people are born with a god given right to complain. It must be in the constitution somewhere, You have options people. Maybe none that you like, but options.
We live in a society where all people are entitled to be happy with everything at all times. If they are ever unhappy with anything at any time their "rights" have been infringed upon. Since their it is a right to be happy at all times with all things they are entitled to seek redress from some arbitrating authority whenever they are unhappy with any thing, at any time, which arbitrating authority will then enforce resolution of a disagreement, restitution of a financial harm or redress of said infringement.

Seeking resolution, redress or restitution, however, takes time, effort and money and, in the case of resolution of a disagreement, might involve fisticuffs. Consequently when the right to happiness is infringed upon, said persons, impatient and lazy, complain.

If enough of them complain, and loudly enough, some 1-800-attorney will offer to seek restitution on said persons' behalf (because all unhappinesses can be assuaged with money) in the form of a Class Action lawsuit (for 40% of the Class Settlement) and handle notification of said Class Members and, under terms of the Settlement, distribute the adjudicated Settlement Claim to said Class Members (for a 7% administrative fee).

Wherever there is not standing to form a Class, such unhappy persons are entitled to bitch and moan on the internet.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-10-2013 at 08:29 AM.
02-10-2013, 09:20 AM   #463
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
do you know what percentage of DPR's readership are working professionals? I couldn't care less what decorative fluff DPR doles out to camera manufacturers, the 4/3 system is just a dead end. I know at least 30 working professionals who use DX format DSLR cameras- many of them are very successful commercially. I don't know a single photographer who works commercially with the 4/3 system.
There was at least one big photographer who shot the Olympic Games in London with a M4/3. I can't remember his name though.
02-10-2013, 09:32 AM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And popularity contests are relevant, how exactly?
lol yeah, the number of people that like and buy a product is irrelevant! Oh no wait, that is the one and only thing that matters in our current economic system, whoops
02-10-2013, 09:50 AM   #465
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Popularity contests and sales are two distinct notions
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