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02-24-2013, 07:33 PM   #601
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It'll be an interesting lawsuit the first time the police arrest someone for filming them with Google Glasses.
There will be no lawsuits since no one is actually going to buy those glasses.

In fact the Nexus Q is going to be considered a smashing success when compared to Google Glasses.

Anyway, full frame...

02-24-2013, 11:50 PM   #602
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
There will be no lawsuits since no one is actually going to buy those glasses.
If someone does their sex appeal is going to go into a nose dive. Those augmented reality glasses are the 21st century version of the military issue "birth control" glasses from the 1950's
02-25-2013, 04:14 AM   #603
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I actually enjoy seeing someone with little experience (possibly an amateur) lugging around a full frame that costs about 2500 (sometimes less); then adding about 1k for a lens' or two. Then to make it better, they're shooting nothing but jpegs and using all automatic settings.
In my class, many are using 5Dmk2 with either a zoom (28-105/4 IS I believe) or a prime (50mm... huh the 50/1.8 in fact).
Not really good prime. All money in the cam. As usual. They shoot RAW though
02-25-2013, 05:53 AM   #604
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I always get my students to shoot RAW, but then again most of my students are in some cases well heeled professionals themselves. Last year I had at least 14 Nikon Photographers( 3 DX and 11 FX format users), 3 Leica (Two M9's and 1 S2),11 Canon( 2 APS-H the rest were using Full frame) and 2 Pentax photographers (both were using the 645D).

In my opinion the the Leica and Pentax photographers were by far the most skilled technically, the professions of the Leica users: two Doctors (one of whom was a neurosurgeon) and a Botanist, Pentax: one Architect and a retired Policeman. As for the Canon and Nikon photographers they were a real mix: some professional wedding photographers a few fine arts majors, musicians, painters and mathematicians.


Last edited by Digitalis; 02-25-2013 at 05:21 PM.
02-25-2013, 06:14 AM - 1 Like   #605
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
In my opinion the the Leica and Pentax photographers were by far the most skilled technically speaking
because they didn't had a choice
02-25-2013, 05:26 PM   #606
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
But Sony's FF sensor at the time wasn't competitive and I think it is fair to assume that many people had not warmed up yet to the idea of sticking very expensive CZ glass on to a Walkman camera.
Sony's sensors were good enough for Nikon to overtake Canon in FF.
02-25-2013, 06:12 PM   #607
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Sony's sensors were good enough for Nikon to overtake Canon in FF.
And APS-C.. the D7000 and D5100 both used the same Sony sensor in that's in the Sony A65 and Pentax K-5.. Canon has done a terrific job of not pushing sensor design and letting competition mount.. which is great for everyone!
02-26-2013, 12:31 AM   #608
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Sony's sensors were good enough for Nikon to overtake Canon in FF.
The later Sony sensors were. They are now the ones to beat.

The one Sony used in the A900/850 was nowhere near at that level yet

02-26-2013, 07:54 AM   #609
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I always get my students to shoot RAW, but then again most of my students are in some cases well heeled professionals themselves. Last year I had at least 14 Nikon Photographers( 3 DX and 11 FX format users), 3 Leica (Two M9's and 1 S2),11 Canon( 2 APS-H the rest were using Full frame) and 2 Pentax photographers (both were using the 645D).

In my opinion the the Leica and Pentax photographers were by far the most skilled technically, the professions of the Leica users: two Doctors (one of whom was a neurosurgeon) and a Botanist, Pentax: one Architect and a retired Policeman. As for the Canon and Nikon photographers they were a real mix: some professional wedding photographers a few fine arts majors, musicians, painters and mathematicians.
Mathematicians? glad to hear I'm not the only one. Take interesting shots?

Best,

-Q
02-26-2013, 04:09 PM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I actually enjoy seeing someone with little experience (possibly an amateur) lugging around a full frame that costs about 2500 (sometimes less); then adding about 1k for a lens' or two. Then to make it better, they're shooting nothing but jpegs and using all automatic settings.
Well, there is always going to be ones that are jumping in and believe that it is best to put all of your money in the body - because they don't yet know how important the lenses are.

I have to say my favorite are wedding guests who show up with the latest FF camera being promoted by Ashton Kutcher. Undoubtedly, they have some cheap glass on it, but the best is when they get to using the on-board flash. The step below them are the ones who knew to invest in a flash, but have no earthly idea how to use it and point a very powerful flash right at their subjects. This typically happens right after I have received a 10 minute lecture from a priest about how I am not allowed to use flash.
02-26-2013, 05:38 PM   #611
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I actually enjoy seeing someone with little experience (possibly an amateur) lugging around a full frame that costs about 2500 (sometimes less); then adding about 1k for a lens' or two. Then to make it better, they're shooting nothing but jpegs and using all automatic settings.
Actual paraphrase of a Canon guy in my office who stopped in the day my LX arrived.
"Well, once we decided FF was the way to go, we decided to invest in the best lenses. After all, these will be the only chances we have to take these pictures of our kids."
He actually showed me some pretty decent landscapes slipped in amongst the Cub Scouts grabs.
02-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #612
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QuoteOriginally posted by qleak Quote
Mathematicians? glad to hear I'm not the only one. Take interesting shots?
ahh that guy was great. A nikon D800E owner, he was very useful when I was discussing optics and geometry with the class. He produced some very interesting images, at one point he asked if he could use one of my large format cameras, I indulged his curiosity and at the end of the year he exhibited prints from that experiment - when the classes were finished he said that working with 8X10 format was the highlight of his year.

QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
I have to say my favorite are wedding guests who show up with the latest FF camera being promoted by Ashton Kutcher
I think Pentax should get Drew Barrymore back in to promote the brand..that would totally work on me.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-26-2013 at 07:38 PM.
02-27-2013, 11:14 AM   #613
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The later Sony sensors were. They are now the ones to beat.

The one Sony used in the A900/850 was nowhere near at that level yet
Kind of missing the point.

Sony chose notto put its own sensors in their FF camera series and instead sold 100% of those next gen sensors to Nikon. So the Nikon D700/D3s (and now D800) all were Sony sensors Sony chose not to put into Sony cameras.

Instead, Sony dropped out--pretty much for 2 years--of the FF market (early 2010 only 5 months after the a850 release to ~late 2012 when the SLT a99 was announced...but not yet available for another 3 months along with the DSC-RX1).

Obviously, even with SLT/EVF as their new differentiation badge, Sony bean counted that the FF DSLR market could not handle more than 2 players.The $2000/body price point is a killer for volume sales.

Pentax likely came to the same conclusion, legitimately. They chose to cede FF to Canikon because to enter in with both bodies and lenses likely meant buying too few sensors from Sony at too high prices (low volume), making the whole FF endeavour a money loser once one factors in the need to revamp the lens line-up.

The capital cost to make an FF body is likely not much more than a K-5 considering Pentax already wrestles with the 645D. The real cost for the body is the price delta between the APS-C and FF sensors + additional FF needs (battery, processor, 10% more raw material/body, etc.). So you get a near-$2000 body. That's a small, small, small market.

The real barrier is investing in 4-5 FF zoom lenses and a similar rework of their FF primes, all while keeping APS-C sales afloat, not just in volume but in price. how do you keep selling a DA70mm (stellar lens) at its current price when FF is the target market. Realistically Pentax needs to severely drop the price of its DA lens line to meet the sub-$1000/body APS-C DSLR market. Pentax cannot keep up the cash flow of high-end DA lenses in an FF world. APS-C is not going anywhere, but its prices are going down.
02-27-2013, 11:18 AM   #614
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Kind of missing the point.

Sony chose notto put its own sensors in their FF camera series and instead sold 100% of those next gen sensors to Nikon. So the Nikon D700/D3s (and now D800) all were Sony sensors Sony chose not to put into Sony cameras.

(...)
Nikon D3/D700/D3s sensors are not Sony sensors.

Nikon D3x sensor is a Sony sensor, close to the one of Alpha 850/900.
02-27-2013, 11:41 AM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Nikon D3/D700/D3s sensors are not Sony sensors.

Nikon D3x sensor is a Sony sensor, close to the one of Alpha 850/900.
Designed by Nikon. Nikon has no foundry, though Nikon industrial does supply photolith equipment.

There was a rumour that a company called Renesas made some Nikon sensors, but that company did not have the capacity. The only companies with that capacity in Japan were Sony and Toshiba, but Sony bought the Toshiba facility (after selling to to Toshiba 5 years earlier!). Nikon never announced anyone but Nikon made the sensors for the D3/700's, but without a fab of the capacity capapble of keeping up with D700 demand, it had to be Sony.

If you buy 100% of the product coming out of a specific fab set-up, you can (for a fee) call it 100% your own even if you don't own the mud underneath the physical plant.

The Nikon D3/700 sensor vaulted Nikon to #1 in FF and DSLR sales. That sensor was the high-ISO blockbusters that changed the industry, set new benchmarks, and <gasp> became the linchpin of everything Nikon and Sony has put out since. So much so that in smaller chip sizes, even Canon buys Sony sensors.

The Nikon D4 also had a a Nikon design, Sony made sensor that was supposed to go in the Sony a920 model, but Sony cancelled their line.
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