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03-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Forget the market share.
Which rings true for the time being, but in the foreseeable future that just may not hold true. I have a feeling that high end models are moving towards larger sensors, even if theoretical advantages of FF sensors are questionable at best. It may well be the right time for Pentax to get into the FF market, so that they can lay down the groundwork for later.

03-11-2013, 08:42 AM   #677
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The big sale on FA Limiteds makes me think that the full frame may be indeed imminent...
Of course that is pure speculation, but what better way to get people stoked about a FF camera than an affordable set of the limiteds??
03-11-2013, 09:02 AM   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Which rings true for the time being, but in the foreseeable future that just may not hold true. I have a feeling that high end models are moving towards larger sensors, even if theoretical advantages of FF sensors are questionable at best. It may well be the right time for Pentax to get into the FF market, so that they can lay down the groundwork for later.
The theoretical advantages might be questionable, but the actual advantages are quite real!
03-11-2013, 09:59 AM   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The big sale on FA Limiteds makes me think that the full frame may be indeed imminent...
Of course that is pure speculation, but what better way to get people stoked about a FF camera than an affordable set of the limiteds??
Nevermind, you have to buy a K-5II to get the sweet prices
Looks like a ploy for people to buy the K-5II....

03-11-2013, 10:35 AM   #680
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Whatever.

Pentax can do no right.
03-11-2013, 03:30 PM   #681
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Using a Pentax is easy. Pentax has the best UI in the business.

The marketing for Pentax has done (almost) nothing, so I guess it's done nothing wrong... and nothing right. They seem to be ramping this up.
...unless you considered the MAP part of marketing, in which case the marketing team is silly.
The final result (images) for Pentax, of pictures in focus, is superior among APS-C cameras. They 'can do no wrong' with few exceptions.
The number of images in focus for Pentax is sub-par in my experience.
The final result (images) for Pentax among flagship sub-$5k cameras is inferior to industry standard.
03-11-2013, 04:01 PM   #682
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Using a Pentax is easy. Pentax has the best UI in the business.

The marketing for Pentax has done (almost) nothing, so I guess it's done nothing wrong... and nothing right. They seem to be ramping this up.
...unless you considered the MAP part of marketing, in which case the marketing team is silly.
The final result (images) for Pentax, of pictures in focus, is superior among APS-C cameras. They 'can do no wrong' with few exceptions.
The number of images in focus for Pentax is sub-par in my experience.
The final result (images) for Pentax among flagship sub-$5k cameras is inferior to industry standard.

I'm sort of curious to know more about your last 3 sentences...could you please elaborate more, seems interesting.
03-11-2013, 06:31 PM   #683
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QuoteOriginally posted by HSV Quote
I'm sort of curious to know more about your last 3 sentences...could you please elaborate more, seems interesting.
Take it with a grain of salt. This is not the general sentiment about the K-5's IQ or focusing accuracy.
There is, and has been, a lot of good vibes coming with the K-5 and beyond...

As with all other companies, Pentax must get the fundamentals right before going with the fancy, more-marketable features.
It will be a big step for Pentax to release a FF with their current generation SAFOX - great IQ and good/reliable AF is a win in my books.

03-11-2013, 07:44 PM   #684
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QuoteOriginally posted by HSV Quote
I'm sort of curious to know more about your last 3 sentences...could you please elaborate more, seems interesting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Take it with a grain of salt. This is not the general sentiment about the K-5's IQ or focusing accuracy.
There is, and has been, a lot of good vibes coming with the K-5 and beyond...

As with all other companies, Pentax must get the fundamentals right before going with the fancy, more-marketable features.
It will be a big step for Pentax to release a FF with their current generation SAFOX - great IQ and good/reliable AF is a win in my books.
A grain of salt? Sure. And hey, I love my K-5, don't get me wrong. It's great, it's a better camera than the D7000 and it's no-comparison (for my needs, of course) better than the 7D. I'd rather have the K-30 or maybe even a K-r more than a 7D.

Nevertheless the D600 (or 7D, etc) has far better AF in my limited experience. I don't take pictures of test charts (often) and the D600 focuses better in the real world. It's no comparison, and often it seems to just be because the K-5's center sensor has easily 10x more picture-covering area than the center sensor of the D600. So for 'big' targets that are all in one plane - like a test chart - it *might* be better to have a K-5. For the eye of a bird, it's better to have the D600 (or 7D, etc). For tracking, it's better to have the D600 or a 7D.

Just my experience, of course, but I feel it's obvious enough that most people would have the same experience. Maybe I'm off in left field, though.


Once you have a picture in focus the K-5 is far better than the 7D. The sensor is just plain-old better than the 7D's. I like in-body stabilization better than the non-existent stabilization for many of Canon's lenses. The K-5 is allegedly very slightly better in IQ than the D7000 but I couldn't tell... but using any Nikon is just a pain in the ass, so it's an easy decision that the Pentax is better.

Of course the K-5 as a flagship is lacking. Some things can't be handled well by stitching, and sometimes I just prefer the IQ of a FF sensor. In some cases I need WR and the primes I have for the K-5 just have no WR at all... and my IQ desires allow for a WR FF zoom lens, whereas I'd want a prime to get the IQ out of the K-5.

I'm being redundant here - many others have mentioned that there's just no 'flagship' with Pentax, unless you're talking the stratospheric 645D.

Last edited by ElJamoquio; 03-11-2013 at 07:50 PM.
03-11-2013, 08:03 PM   #685
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Thanks for the clarification.

I agree with your remarks of the AF. While Pentax's system is not bad...it "feels" sort of outdated and unresponsive. My D200 sure felt a lot more solid and responsive.

And unfortunately, I also agree with you that Pentax doesn't really have a flagship (something on the level of a 1Dx, in my mind).

Stuff like lack of tethering doesn't help the case either.
03-11-2013, 09:21 PM   #686
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
A grain of salt? Sure. And hey, I love my K-5, don't get me wrong. It's great, it's a better camera than the D7000 and it's no-comparison (for my needs, of course) better than the 7D. I'd rather have the K-30 or maybe even a K-r more than a 7D.

Nevertheless the D600 (or 7D, etc) has far better AF in my limited experience. I don't take pictures of test charts (often) and the D600 focuses better in the real world. It's no comparison, and often it seems to just be because the K-5's center sensor has easily 10x more picture-covering area than the center sensor of the D600. So for 'big' targets that are all in one plane - like a test chart - it *might* be better to have a K-5. For the eye of a bird, it's better to have the D600 (or 7D, etc). For tracking, it's better to have the D600 or a 7D.

Just my experience, of course, but I feel it's obvious enough that most people would have the same experience. Maybe I'm off in left field, though.


Once you have a picture in focus the K-5 is far better than the 7D. The sensor is just plain-old better than the 7D's. I like in-body stabilization better than the non-existent stabilization for many of Canon's lenses. The K-5 is allegedly very slightly better in IQ than the D7000 but I couldn't tell... but using any Nikon is just a pain in the ass, so it's an easy decision that the Pentax is better.

Of course the K-5 as a flagship is lacking. Some things can't be handled well by stitching, and sometimes I just prefer the IQ of a FF sensor. In some cases I need WR and the primes I have for the K-5 just have no WR at all... and my IQ desires allow for a WR FF zoom lens, whereas I'd want a prime to get the IQ out of the K-5.

I'm being redundant here - many others have mentioned that there's just no 'flagship' with Pentax, unless you're talking the stratospheric 645D.
yes, but I would rather have the 1/8000 second shutter of the K5, the 5 exposure bracketing, the UI, the iso button in an intelligent location (try holding an 80-200 f2.8 and adjusting ISO on the D600 while holding the camera to your eye. I can do that with the K5 60-250 f4), the quieter shutter, better WR, better build quality in both lenses and camera body, the better low light focusing of the K5 ii. All things on why my D600 is currently collecting dust and my K5 is with me every day. now If i I would have saved a few dollars for the D800... then maybe I wouldn't be so whiny

So if Pentax comes out with a carbon copy of the D600, they better at least up the shutter speed and keep with the intelligent button placement I've grown used too after K7 and K5 ownership. I would say K20D ownership too, but I forget what that body feels like. Then I would feel better about buying it blindly.
03-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
yes, but I would rather have the 1/8000 second shutter of the K5, the 5 exposure bracketing, the UI, the iso button in an intelligent location (try holding an 80-200 f2.8 and adjusting ISO on the D600 while holding the camera to your eye. I can do that with the K5 60-250 f4), the quieter shutter, better WR, better build quality in both lenses and camera body, the better low light focusing of the K5 ii. All things on why my D600 is currently collecting dust and my K5 is with me every day. now If i I would have saved a few dollars for the D800... then maybe I wouldn't be so whiny

So if Pentax comes out with a carbon copy of the D600, they better at least up the shutter speed and keep with the intelligent button placement I've grown used too after K7 and K5 ownership. I would say K20D ownership too, but I forget what that body feels like. Then I would feel better about buying it blindly.
I guess it comes down to priorities doesn't it? I could make the same kind of arguments I'm favour of the D600. I would rather have the better autofocus, dual card slots that can use the latest cards, better video, full frame, one of the best sensors available, better flash work, and best of all, access to some of the best lenses available, both OEM and third party.

Personally I'm too deep into Nikon to switch back to a Pentax FF, so I'm hoping more for an X-Pro 1 like offering to act as a lightweight back up.
03-11-2013, 10:37 PM   #688
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
yes, but I would rather have the 1/8000 second shutter of the K5, the 5 exposure bracketing, the UI, the iso button in an intelligent location (try holding an 80-200 f2.8 and adjusting ISO on the D600 while holding the camera to your eye. I can do that with the K5 60-250 f4), the quieter shutter, better WR, better build quality in both lenses and camera body, the better low light focusing of the K5 ii. All things on why my D600 is currently collecting dust and my K5 is with me every day. now If i I would have saved a few dollars for the D800... then maybe I wouldn't be so whiny

So if Pentax comes out with a carbon copy of the D600, they better at least up the shutter speed and keep with the intelligent button placement I've grown used too after K7 and K5 ownership. I would say K20D ownership too, but I forget what that body feels like. Then I would feel better about buying it blindly.
If I had to pick one, I'd pick the K-5.
I don't have to pick.

I like the D600 IQ. The WR is better for me on the D600, because the only WR-type pentax lenses I own are the 18-55 (not the best), the 100mm, and the 300mm... so there's quite a gap from 15-70ish mm, and I'm not going to purchase the 16-50. I tried it once. Not for me at $800, not for me at twice that.

I love the Nikon AF. The low-light AF is really not a problem for me.

The 1/4000 isn't good. It hasn't been a problem thus far though, for me. I don't own fast glass on Nikon and I don't really need to - F/2.8ish-equivalent is fast enough for me for now. I don't want to get too invested in Nikon because it IS a pain to use compared to Pentax. It's less fun and more work.


... but how are you figuring that the WR is better on the K-5...? Care to elaborate?
03-12-2013, 05:23 AM   #689
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I just don't trust the D600 build at all. I must be blind but I can't find the seal on the battery door or memory card doors. The whole thing feels like a plastic toy compared to the K5. The seals on the K5 also feel more substantial.

I do enjoy the sensor and the wide angle shooting that the D600 gives me. But that's about jt
03-12-2013, 05:36 AM   #690
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote

... but how are you figuring that the WR is better on the K-5...? Care to elaborate?
Questions & Answers About the Nikon D600 | Nikon D600

Apparently the weather sealing on the D600 is equivalent to that of the D800.
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