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03-12-2013, 05:55 AM   #691
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I just don't trust the D600 build at all. I must be blind but I can't find the seal on the battery door or memory card doors. The whole thing feels like a plastic toy compared to the K5. The seals on the K5 also feel more substantial.

I do enjoy the sensor and the wide angle shooting that the D600 gives me. But that's about jt
You are blind The battery door has quite thick rubber on the door itself, maybe you can feel it?
The memory card door has no seal, the door closes against a seal that is on the camera, around the slots.

03-12-2013, 05:57 AM   #692
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Questions & Answers About the Nikon D600 | Nikon D600

Apparently the weather sealing on the D600 is equivalent to that of the D800.
Really, so am I the only one that wouldn't buy a camera with a plastic lens mount? That's just really cheap.
03-12-2013, 06:04 AM   #693
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
You are blind The battery door has quite thick rubber on the door itself, maybe you can feel it?
The memory card door has no seal, the door closes against a seal that is on the camera, around the slots.
It might be technically very good, but it doesn't inspire the same confidence as the K5. My old K-20 had a little knob you had to turn in order to be able to open the battery door, and I loved it. The whole camera felt like a tank. For such tactile devices, the feeling and confidence they inspire is very important.

But for me personally it's not that much of an issue since I will probably replace this camera in four to five years anyway. I'm not looking for life-long durability.
03-12-2013, 06:15 AM   #694
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Really, so am I the only one that wouldn't buy a camera with a plastic lens mount? That's just really cheap.
The D600 has a metal lens mount. The front of the camera is not magnesium alloy like the D800 but the same advice applies in regards to heavy lenses. Even on a D4 you have to support a big lens with one hand.

03-12-2013, 06:30 AM   #695
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Questions & Answers About the Nikon D600 | Nikon D600

Apparently the weather sealing on the D600 is equivalent to that of the D800.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
The D600 has a metal lens mount. The front of the camera is not magnesium alloy like the D800 but the same advice applies in regards to heavy lenses. Even on a D4 you have to support a big lens with one hand.


My apologies for being confrontational but that is clearly a plastic mount. It may have a metal cover plate, but the support is plastic.

I think everyone knows, you're supposed to support your long lenses. But apart from that, I know pros who have used longer lenses enough to stress and weaken the metal mounts of their cameras. What I'm saying is, if you're that guy, the plastic is going to lose rigidity sooner.

I'd be happy to see engineering tests that show I'm wrong, but usually plastic components are introduced to reduce manufacturing costs, not to increase longevity or performance. I'm not opposed to this being an upgrade, but, I'd have to see the test results that that suggest it might be true, or at least a statement from a Nikon engineer stating that it's true.
03-12-2013, 07:03 AM   #696
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote

My apologies for being confrontational but that is clearly a plastic mount. It may have a metal cover plate, but the support is plastic.

I think everyone knows, you're supposed to support your long lenses. But apart from that, I know pros who have used longer lenses enough to stress and weaken the metal mounts of their cameras. What I'm saying is, if you're that guy, the plastic is going to lose rigidity sooner.

I'd be happy to see engineering tests that show I'm wrong, but usually plastic components are introduced to reduce manufacturing costs, not to increase longevity or performance. I'm not opposed to this being an upgrade, but, I'd have to see the test results that that suggest it might be true, or at least a statement from a Nikon engineer stating that it's true.
Fair enough, I see what you mean. Although I have yet to see a rash of broken lens mounts on the D7000 and D600.
03-12-2013, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #697
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'd be happy to see engineering tests that show I'm wrong, but usually plastic components are introduced to reduce manufacturing costs, not to increase longevity or performance.
I wouldn't be such a harsh critic over the use of plastic camera components, plastics are used for electrical insulation and also to reduce stresses caused by thermal expansion. Additionally most of these plastics (Nylon,polycarbonates and composite materials based on them) can be formed and moulded in ways that metal cannot. Many cameras these days often have a metal substructure with additional support from polycarbonate components. Longevity of polycarbonate and nylon camera components is certainly debatable - but when used properly a plastic component can have significantly higher durability and lower weight than an equivalent metal component.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-12-2013 at 05:26 PM.
03-12-2013, 08:14 AM   #698
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I wouldn't be such a harsh critic over the use of plastic camera components, plastics are used for electrical insulation and also to reduce stresses caused by thermal expansion. Additionally most of these plastics (Nylon,polycarbonates and composite materials based on them) can be formed and moulded in ways that metal cannot. Many cameras these days often have a metal substructure with additional support from polycarbonate components. Longevity of polycarbonate and nylon camera components is certainly debatable - but when used properly and a plastic component can have significantly higher durability and lower weight than an equivalent metal component.
Like you I wouldn't expect this to be an issue with your average user. For a wildlife guy shooting long lenses on a regular basis, maybe, after years of use... using a 24-70 zoom most of the time, I wouldn't expect it to matter at all.

However, given the amount of time my K-5 spends in a camera case attached to my belt with the DA*60-250 on it, doing 10 Km hikes etc... I'd definitely worry about a plastic support. It's moving on every step.

And I've blown up a couple of carbon fibre tennis rackets... the plastic stuff is good while it's good, but if you ever stress it so much it lets go, there's not much left.


Last edited by normhead; 03-12-2013 at 08:24 AM.
03-12-2013, 08:33 AM   #699
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And I've blown up a couple of carbon fibre tennis rackets
Same thing can happen to fly rods. But they're not polycarbonate engineering plastic.

On the one hand many, many people here complain because equipment is heavy - but many many people value long-term durability and associate metal with that quality. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with either position since I don't really know the properties of the materials, but I do note that over the course of a long thread such as this at least one poster will contrast every single characteristic of every current Pentax camera made with something made by the competiton.
03-12-2013, 08:37 AM   #700
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We need someone to put a D600 and a K-5 in a vice with a long lens on it to develop some leverage and then stress them until they fail...I'll donate $25 to the cause.
03-12-2013, 08:57 AM   #701
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One of the good things about metals is how they fail; they will bend before they breaks, and hopefully you'll notice that before things go catastrophic. Plastics and carbon fibers, on the other hand are much stronger by the pound, but they are very brittle and will fail suddenly, often with little or no warning. Good design will take this inelasticity into account and design accordingly. The aforementioned tennis rackets are more or less disposable goods, so the designers probably shaved ounces here and there, knowing that failure was not life threatening. At some point during the racket's life, it likely experienced a small impact that acted as a stress point, leading to its failure. Bicycle designers are likely more conservative in their approach when designing carbon fiber bikes, knowing that a failure can lead to injury. It still happens though, and in many cases I'd guess that the cause was an unseen stress riser caused by an impact.

Regarding cameras, it is possible to design a polycarbonate body that is rugged enough for even combat use, but you'd have to add more material (and volume likely) to the point where the weight advantages start to diminish.

Now you can tell my father that I do use my college degree from time to time.
03-12-2013, 09:42 AM   #702
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Now you can tell my father that I do use my college degree from time to time.
Though I (apparently) went the other direction (liberal arts degree >> into financial engineering business), if my father is indicative yours won't get over it until it is too late to matter any more.
03-12-2013, 10:11 AM   #703
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
One of the good things about metals is how they fail; they will bend before they breaks, and hopefully you'll notice that before things go catastrophic. Plastics and carbon fibers, on the other hand are much stronger by the pound, but they are very brittle and will fail suddenly, often with little or no warning. Good design will take this inelasticity into account and design accordingly.

'Plastics' are called 'plastic' because they deform plastically (bending) rather than brittle-ly (breaking).

Not all plastics are like that of course, which is why many engineers prefer the term 'polymer'.

The ductility of CFRP is dictated by the carbon fiber, not the polymer.

As others have mentioned you could easily mould plastic into a shape that is much stronger than the equivalent-cost cast/stamped/machined metal. It just depends on what you want to do.

I have no doubts that the D600 is less durable than the top model (D3 or something). I also have no doubts that the D600 will not fail at the mount for me. I don't hand-hold 800mm lenses.
03-12-2013, 10:47 AM - 1 Like   #704
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
'Plastics' are called 'plastic' because they deform plastically (bending) rather than brittle-ly (breaking).

Not all plastics are like that of course, which is why many engineers prefer the term 'polymer'.

The ductility of CFRP is dictated by the carbon fiber, not the polymer.

As others have mentioned you could easily mould plastic into a shape that is much stronger than the equivalent-cost cast/stamped/machined metal. It just depends on what you want to do.

I have no doubts that the D600 is less durable than the top model (D3 or something). I also have no doubts that the D600 will not fail at the mount for me. I don't hand-hold 800mm lenses.
Weakling. I regularly hand hold the Canon EF 1200mm f/5.6 L USM Lens...
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03-12-2013, 12:48 PM   #705
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
Weakling. I regularly hand hold the Canon EF 1200mm f/5.6 L USM Lens...
That's not a lens in that picture! That's a Saturn 5 second stage!
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