The Pentax brand has also maintained excellent compatibility through its K-Mount bayonet (adopted in early to mid-70's) and to the earlier "universal" 42mm screw mount lenses. It would be a suitable choice for using older lenses however, it does not have any full frame sensor models.

So, to meet all your criteria only the Nikon will do. It has a vast selection of current and older model lenses available going back to the early-mid 1960's it will require no adapters and only occasional factory adjustments and has an outstanding array of wide lenses.

[Clavius]

I think money can get got around to a degree. I fell in love with the DA Limited primes as a set. I bought all but one second-hand over 2-3 years and in total they cost less together than buying one new super-high-massive quality prime from Canonikon, let alone from Leica or a Zeiss 21mm, for example.

Of course, the DA Limited have their compromises not least because of their size constraints. But the point is that I fell for them. Whoever thought them up and ensured that each was differently configured like a piece of netsuke was being extremely clever. Since a body was also designed specifically for them (according to a Pentax paper on the subject) - it was originally the K7, now the K5 - someone in Pentax was joining up the dots. They didn't push through on the marketing, however, selling the whole collection as a unified set (as an idea or aspiration even if not to buy all at once) - this was a bit of a mistake, imho, since the ensemble was and to an extent still is unique.

Anyway, my point is that if you make things people fall in love with they will buy them. And chances are, no one else will be producing anything all that similar. Most cameras and lenses are about as interesting as washing machines or coffee grinders. They are highly competently done to a fine standard of industrial design and they do what they say they will. But they are cold and workaday and nothing one can get excited about. The Nikon D600 and Nikon 28mm 1.8, 50mm 1.4 and 85mm f1.8 G lenses (the standard "economy" set of primes for FF) are perfect examples of that school of thought. The Pentax Limiteds or the Fuji X series are good examples of the different approach.

So Pentax have done it once and I hope they can do it again, reminding us that we take lots of pics because we fell in love with photography. If they only do "me too", however, whether in FF or any other new format, which is always the easy option in a corporate setting where "cheap to make, quick to sell" is what the money men want to hear, I think they are sunk.

Can't agree with you more here. That's why I got some of the DA's, the Fuji X's and a CZ. See, letting LBA go cross-brand and adapting your camera-lineup to it costs! I don't have a Leica to match the CZ though, I use a NEX for that.

About the bold part... Wouldn't a Pentax FF DSLR be a me-too camera per definition? They're not plugging some niche hole in the market with it. CaNiSo already have FF DSLRs in various iterations. Pentax joining the club with the same kind of gear would be very me-too indeed. IBIS and WR are not going to set Pentax apart anymore as those features can be found amongst the competition now. Not that there is something wrong with a me-too camera, but if they want to avoid that, they would have to issue an unorthodox Pentax FF body.

[Rondec]

I think what normhead means is where is the modern pro-level glass able to exploit the FF sensor to it's full potential. The lenses you named are all fine and good but they're not the drool worthy equivalents of offering from Canikon and unless Pentax has a few more than the aging FA 31mm, 43mm and 77mm at launch, it's going to be a hard sell.

What's up with people bashing the FA limiteds, particularly their age? Most of Canikon's prime lenses (particularly their 85mm and 50mm lenses) are based on designs that are twice as old as the FA limiteds, at the least. Honestly, if someone isn't happy with the FA limiteds, they definitely shouldn't hold out for the mythical Pentax full frame. These lenses feature some of what is best about Pentax, solid build, beautiful rendering of out of focus areas, nice colors and contrast. Maybe the coatings could be tweaked a little, add quick shift, but otherwise we need more lenses like the FA limiteds.

[thibs]

What really should happen is that Pentax comes out with a camera with a sensor size somewhere between FF and 645, in a body as small as K-5, for about $3000.

That weird sensor size would basicaly mean NO support at all from any 3rd party lens manufacturer.
If it is a system à la 645, well 645 has basicaly no 3rd party support so who cares?
If it is supposed to be a replacement for FF, this make it even harder than an FF would (IMO).

[gazonk]

What really should happen is that Pentax comes out with a camera with a sensor size somewhere between FF and 645, in a body as small as K-5, for about $3000.

With yet another mount? I don't think that's a good idea.

But, I think it's a good idea to make the next 645D body significantly smaller than the current. With a thinner body (there's a lot of space that can be freed in the back of the current 645D) it could be made to look like a large K-5 with a chunky viewfinder. If they could slash the price as well (maybe two versions with different mp count?), it would appear as a strong better-than-FF alternative to enthusiasts and pros and transcend (even more than the current 645D) the traditional MF market.

[DaveBlack]

Kind of digital Rolleiflex SL 2000 F / SL 3003 with K mount? With interchangeable lenses, film backs and magazines (==> sensor and electronics), focusing screens, and with built-in waist-level (==> top LCD) and eye-level finders? Could be nice indeed.

Rollei 3003

A FF camera design like this will set itself apart from your typical FF camera. Make it weather-sealed and it would be a great landscape camera. Might be better for a mirror less design.

Still I don't think Pentax will make a camera hat different.

Dave

[dankoBanana]

a weather sealed FF camera with a fixed Limited zoom on it? yes please! :P

[Asahiflex]

a weather sealed FF camera with a fixed Limited zoom on it? yes please! :P

No please. Kill it! Kill it with fire!

[Allison]

What's up with people bashing the FA limiteds, particularly their age? Most of Canikon's prime lenses (particularly their 85mm and 50mm lenses) are based on designs that are twice as old as the FA limiteds, at the least. Honestly, if someone isn't happy with the FA limiteds, they definitely shouldn't hold out for the mythical Pentax full frame. These lenses feature some of what is best about Pentax, solid build, beautiful rendering of out of focus areas, nice colors and contrast. Maybe the coatings could be tweaked a little, add quick shift, but otherwise we need more lenses like the FA limiteds.

I don't understand the bashing either. The FA limiteds are why I didn't switch to Nikon. I want to see what those will do on a Pentax FF dslr. And to whomever said people would be embarrassed to put an old lens on a new ff dslr, I disagree. I put old glass on my k5 at weddings all the time. It wouldn't be any different if the camera were ff. quality glass is quality glass.

[monochrome]

A FF camera design like this will set itself apart from your typical FF camera. Make it weather-sealed and it would be a great landscape camera. Might be better for a mirror less design.

Still I don't think Pentax will make a camera hat different.

Dave

Certainly they won't be that different after the K-01. I believe the K-01 burned "different" out of Pentax for an entire generation.

[Asahiflex]

Certainly they won't be that different after the K-01. I believe the K-01 burned "different" out of Pentax for an entire generation.

For what it's worth I think the upcoming FF model will have a VERY traditional external design, maybe even more traditional than we have seen in any Pentax DSLR thus far. What will set it apart will be the specs and the possibly VERY interesting viewfinder system.

(Disclaimer: I have no inside information; this is solely based on my gut feeling, Pentax patents with regards to the viewfinder system, and the fact that I think that it will be a spiritual successor to the famous LX. The success of the very traditional Fuji cameras and the Olympus OM-D also prove my point. Maybe it'll even show some brassing after heavy use, like we have seen in the new MX-1).

[ogl]

a weather sealed FF camera with a fixed Limited zoom on it? yes please! :P

GRD V with APS-C sensor will be enough.

[frank]

Some of you guys got nothing else to do? Why not just go out and take some photos? Trust me, it's far better than sitting here 'doing' nothing?

[normhead]

And to whomever said people would be embarrassed to put an old lens on a new ff dslr

it wasn't so much old glass, it's just that if you look at the resolving power of the Nikon zooms in my post, I doubt my old Pentax kit lenses are going to measure up. If the resolving power of the FA 35-80 I paid $49 is up there on par with the Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 AFS ($1963 at Henry's) or eve the Nikkor 24-85 3.5-4.5 VR that comes as a kit on the D600, no one will be happier than I. Just these are all new lenses designed to make use of the resolving power of the new sensors.

So let me rephrase, I would be embarrassed to be using a lens that didn't make full use of the resolving capabilities of the sensor. Age has nothing to do with it, except that all the Pentax FF lenses are old. Some like the DFA 100 WR have been updated for digital. Most have not.

[normhead]

And to whomever said people would be embarrassed to put an old lens on a new ff dslr

it wasn't so much old glass, it's just that if you look at the resolving power of the Nikon zooms in my post, I doubt my old Pentax kit lenses are going to measure up. If the resolving power of the FA 35-80 I paid $49 is up there on par with the Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 AFS ($1963 at Henry's) or eve the Nikkor 24-85 3.5-4.5 VR that comes as a kit on the D600, no one will be happier than I. Just these Nikon lenses are all new lenses designed to make use of the resolving power of the new sensors. Some of you may be telling me that Nikon is just catching up with what Pentax always had, but I'm not going to believe that until I see it.

So let me rephrase, I would be embarrassed to be using a lens that didn't make full use of the resolving capabilities of the sensor. Age has nothing to do with it, except that all the Pentax FF lenses are old. Some like the DFA 100 WR have been updated for digital. Most have not.

I agree with others, I want to see what the FAs will do, but I own the FA 50 1.7 and it produces some wicked purple fringing from time to time.

Some of you guys got nothing else to do? Why not just go out and take some photos? Trust me, it's far better than sitting here 'doing' nothing?

It's 30 below right now, I'm waiting until it get up to -20 so I can take my dogs for a walk. It's nice to sit and chew the fat for a bit.