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View Poll Results: Would you buy a Pentax Full Frame DSLR?
Yes 15277.95%
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07-08-2013, 12:18 AM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I suspect you're right, and of the few who do, only a very small percentage would actually see a difference.
If your needs require the capability of DOF so shallow that if you focus on a freckle the skin it's on is out of focus, then you certainly need an f1.2 lens and a 24x36 sensor. Otherwise, contrary to the opinions of FF proponents, it is possible to take fairly decent photos with an APS-c camera. (Or so I've heard)
...Unless you stand - say - 4 meters away from your subject, then the DOF becomes 45cm, which has many usefull occasions. (Assuming you meant the 50/1.2) Lenses don't always have to be shot at their widest aperture and the closest focussing distance they can focus.

07-08-2013, 03:07 AM   #272
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Yep, in a heartbeat.
07-08-2013, 04:10 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I suspect you're right, and of the few who do, only a very small percentage would actually see a difference.
If your needs require the capability of DOF so shallow that if you focus on a freckle the skin it's on is out of focus, then you certainly need an f1.2 lens and a 24x36 sensor. Otherwise, contrary to the opinions of FF proponents, it is possible to take fairly decent photos with an APS-c camera. (Or so I've heard)
For me it is less a matter of do I "see a difference" than being able to use my old lenses, with all their imperfections and [low prices], at their designed FOV. Certainly this is not cost effective or even sensible. I'm guessing body only at around $1,500 to compete with the cheaper Canikons. Putting the $1500 into some really good lens (no more -es at the end of lens, after the price hikes) does more photographically, and retains its value better than sinking the dollars into a digital body.

Actually, maybe I ought to be waiting for the full frame NEX
07-08-2013, 07:04 AM - 1 Like   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Unless you stand - say - 4 meters away from your subject, then the DOF becomes 45cm, which has many usefull occasions.
Absolutely, and you could achieve the same effect on APS-C by altering the working distance slightly. That was my point. The single, virtually only argument I see for a FF requirement in any of these threads is shallow DOF.
If a person knowing nothing about photography were to read the FF threads, and ONLY the FF threads, he would be convinced that the single biggest factor that makes a photo a good one is getting as close to zero DOF as possible.

Nesster's reason in the post above is probably the actual reason behind most everybody's desire for FF; he's just one of the few who will admit it.


Last edited by Parallax; 07-08-2013 at 07:23 AM.
07-08-2013, 08:03 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
For me it is less a matter of do I "see a difference" than being able to use my old lenses, with all their imperfections and [low prices], at their designed FOV. Certainly this is not cost effective or even sensible. I'm guessing body only at around $1,500 to compete with the cheaper Canikons. Putting the $1500 into some really good lens (no more -es at the end of lens, after the price hikes) does more photographically, and retains its value better than sinking the dollars into a digital body.

Actually, maybe I ought to be waiting for the full frame NEX
I stopped waiting for a full frame NEX eight months ago and purchased it from B&H. Now all of my full frame PK mount lenses work at their native FOV.
07-08-2013, 08:57 AM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Absolutely, and you could achieve the same effect on APS-C by altering the working distance slightly. That was my point. The single, virtually only argument I see for a FF requirement in any of these threads is shallow DOF.
If a person knowing nothing about photography were to read the FF threads, and ONLY the FF threads, he would be convinced that the single biggest factor that makes a photo a good one is getting as close to zero DOF as possible.

Nesster's reason in the post above is probably the actual reason behind most everybody's desire for FF; he's just one of the few who will admit it.
That is exactly my feeling about FF - it would be nice for my old glass to work as designed (especially as they are usually a lot smaller than modern lenses), but it's not that big a deal to me, nor would I be willing to spend thousands of dollars or use a honkin' big body to do it.

I have to wonder how much of it is leftover resentment from when crop-sensor DSLRs first came out and our lens lineup didn't work the same any more. I'll admit to being annoyed at first, and then I got over it.
07-08-2013, 11:40 AM   #277
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On the other hand, look at the title of this section: Pentax Full Frame. No mention of DSLR. Perhaps we should not be planning to buy a full frame DSLR...

Pentax's EVIL Plans Apparently Leaked by Citigroup Report


of course this 'news' has been recirculating for some years now. Kind of puts it in the "Robert Duvall [or any star you google] falls to his death in New Zealand" category?

Last edited by Nesster; 07-08-2013 at 12:05 PM.
07-08-2013, 12:12 PM   #278
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And we all know now that Pentax EVIL became Q and K-01.

07-08-2013, 12:20 PM   #279
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You have to admit, they both were "distinct" from other market offerings! (I didn't say whether that was good or bad.)
07-08-2013, 12:25 PM   #280
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A full frame Auto 110 that can take advantage of 35 years worth of legacy lenses
07-08-2013, 04:44 PM   #281
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The only pragmatic advantage IMO of a 24x36 sensor by Pentax would be larger format printing with higher resolution, but only if paired with high end glass like the FA Limiteds.
There is zero advantage in a FF camera over an APS-C if all that's being used are FAJ zooms.
Of course, the experience of shooting with a FF camera is another thing altogether, but this is a more personal factor rather than a results-based one.
07-08-2013, 05:31 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
The only pragmatic advantage IMO of a 24x36 sensor by Pentax would be larger format printing with higher resolution, but only if paired with high end glass like the FA Limiteds.
There is zero advantage in a FF camera over an APS-C if all that's being used are FAJ zooms.
Of course, the experience of shooting with a FF camera is another thing altogether, but this is a more personal factor rather than a results-based one.
What about the extra stop of high iso performance? Seems pretty useful to me if you shoot a lot in low light or want to keep your shutter speed fast.

Last edited by cali92rs; 07-08-2013 at 05:38 PM.
07-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
What about the extra stop of high iso performance? Seems pretty useful to me if you shoot a lot in low light or want to keep your shutter speed fast.
There's an if in there. There is always an "if". When you shoot high ISO whether it be APS-c or 36mm, shooting high ISO reduces your dynamic range. A high ISO shot by definition is a compromised shot. The only question is how compromised. These arguments go on and on. BUt the end result is always the same. Most of us are fine with APS-c. There are a few who aren't. But those few make an awful lot of noise.

Improvements in camera technology will continue at a good pace, in both APS-c and FF. You can ask for a stop more high ISO performance and not even mention FF. At this point you're just as likely to get that extra stop from noise reduction technology as from a larger sensor. While the physics is constant, there will be times when applying a new technology to a smaller sensor first, will give that smaller sensor better performance than larger sensors of the day.
07-08-2013, 06:50 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Absolutely, and you could achieve the same effect on APS-C by altering the working distance slightly. That was my point. The single, virtually only argument I see for a FF requirement in any of these threads is shallow DOF.
If a person knowing nothing about photography were to read the FF threads, and ONLY the FF threads, he would be convinced that the single biggest factor that makes a photo a good one is getting as close to zero DOF as possible.
I think that beginner photographer would also learn that, for a given IQ/DOF, FF lenses are cheaper; and as such would make a decision as the pocketbook and ambition allow.
07-08-2013, 07:20 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
The only pragmatic advantage IMO of a 24x36 sensor by Pentax would be larger format printing with higher resolution, but only if paired with high end glass like the FA Limiteds.
There is zero advantage in a FF camera over an APS-C if all that's being used are FAJ zooms.
Of course, the experience of shooting with a FF camera is another thing altogether, but this is a more personal factor rather than a results-based one.
So a full frame 35mm F1.4 wide angle would still have a 63.1 wide angle FOV with an APS-C sensor or would it only have a 43.2 FOV like a 52.5mm full frame lens ?

QuoteQuote:
You Can Use Cheap Lenses!

I get better results on full-frame with crummy lenses than I do with my very best lenses on DX.

Having bigger pixels on a larger format means you can use cheaper lenses and usually get better results than the best lenses on a smaller format.
The Full-Frame Advantage
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