[Aristophanes]

Have any of you folks seen or held the Sony RX1? It is a FF camera that is the size of a compact. The RX1 lacks in-body image stabilization, but if it were a bit larger, say the size of a K-5, I would bet that IBIS could be included. Sony has shown the world how to make a truly small FF camera. I hope that Pentax will learn some lessons from them, and if they do, they can distinguish themselves from the established manufacturers of FF DSLRs.

Rob

The RX-1 is not that compact:

Compare camera dimensions side by side

Very large, vulnerable lens.

[kenafein]

The RX-1 is not that compact:

Compare camera dimensions side by side

Very large, vulnerable lens.

It actually feels quite good in the hand, and the build quality is high, like the RX100. It almost feels worth the price.

[jogiba]

The RX-1 is not that compact:

Compare camera dimensions side by side

Very large, vulnerable lens.

Put a 35mm F2.0 lens on the K-01 then compare. The RX1 is by far the world's smallest full frame camera.
RX1 with Zeiss 35mm F2.0 vs K-01 body

[Aristophanes]

Put a 35mm F2.0 lens on the K-01 then compare. The RX1 is by far the world's smallest full frame camera.
RX1 with Zeiss 35mm F2.0 vs K-01 body

Right, but the RX-1 is $2,200 more expensive and can only have the 1 lens. Ever.

Phenomenal camera, but it's not quite compact.

Comparing fixed lens vs. system cameras is always a fail.

[RobA_Oz]

A more valid comparison for the RX1 would be with the GR, rather than the K-01:
Compare camera dimensions side by side

[jogiba]

Right, but the RX-1 is $2,200 more expensive and can only have the 1 lens. Ever.

Phenomenal camera, but it's not quite compact.

Comparing fixed lens vs. system cameras is always a fail.

Ok then, how about the two smallest system cameras on the planet :
Pentax Q with 8.5mm lens vs Sony NEX-3N with 16-50mm zoom

[jogiba]

A more valid comparison for the RX1 would be with the GR, rather than the K-01:
Compare camera dimensions side by side

Exactly how is comparing a Ricoh GR APS-C with 18.3mm F2.8 fixed lens vs a full frame RX1 with 35mm F2.0 Zeiss lens a more valid comparison ?

[kenafein]

Exactly how is comparing a Ricoh GR APS-C with 18.3mm F2.8 fixed lens vs a full frame RX1 with 35mm F2.0 Zeiss lens a more valid comparison ?

I think they are targeting the same customer base. The X100S is a closer comparisson, lens wise, but it's even bigger in most dimensions. I think the lens on the RX1 is worth the compromise in size. It is not a pocket camera, it never set out to be, but it seems to be just the right size. I would really love to have one.

[RobA_Oz]

Exactly how is comparing a Ricoh GR APS-C with 18.3mm F2.8 fixed lens vs a full frame RX1 with 35mm F2.0 Zeiss lens a more valid comparison ?

The previous comparison was between the "full frame", fixed lens RX1 and the APS-C, replaceable lens K-01. I removed one of the variables, that's why it's more valid. I did actually say "rather than the K-01". Of course, the other variables are the FL and maximum aperture, which are manifestly different by any technical comparison basis, but that's another argument (and you do seem to like argument, with respect). Putting that to one side, they are both aimed at similar market niches, as kenafein has stated, therefore a comparison of bulk is valid. Bulk (as distinct from linear dimension) is where this little deviation from the thread actually started. Compared with the GR, the RX1 is bulky, and it's the bulge of the lens housing, rather than the slimness of the body that makes it so.

[jogiba]

If Sony comes out with the RX10 that would be an APS-C version of the RX100 and smaller than the RX1 as rumored that would be a better comparison with the GR IMHO.

Ricoh announces the GR….time to release the RX10! | sonyalpharumors


The RX1 makes the Leica M look huge in comparison :
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2836/8807278476_8771bbd9d3_b.jpg


back view :
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7316/8796786991_1bc1f583a0_b.jpg

[RobA_Oz]

If Sony comes out with the RX10 that would be an APS-C version of the RX100 and smaller than the RX1 as rumored that would be a better comparison with the GR IMHO.

I'm sure Ricoh has set the cat among the pigeons with the GR, but Sony has been pushing quite a bit of new product out the door recently, so the rumoured RX10 might not appear for a while, yet.

The RX1 makes the Leica M look huge in comparison :

That's certainly true, and, while it's far easier to make a slim body with a fixed lens, Sony also wasn't required to deal with the large range of legacy lenses that had to fit the interchangeable M-mount. None of this detracts from Sony's achievement in designing and manufacturing the RX1, of course. Nonetheless, if your rich uncle offered you a choice of an RX1 and a Leica M with a 35mm lens, which would you choose? I don't think size would be high on my list of criteria.

[Bestzoom]

Sony has been pushing quite a bit of new product out the door recently, so the rumoured RX10 might not appear for a while, yet.

The new Sony rumour is a FF NEX and likely no more SLT. Maybe Sony will focus on FF ILC, which IMHO is a smart move.... It is hard to gain market share with pro DSLR as Cannikon is the big player.

Nonetheless, if your rich uncle offered you a choice of an RX1 and a Leica M with a 35mm lens, which would you choose?

If it is given to me, i will pick RX1 because of AF with Zeiss and because i have Leica gear (don't need another manual camera).

[Aristophanes]

The new Sony rumour is a FF NEX and likely no more SLT.

Sony make up its mind? Pshaw!

It is hard to gain market share with pro DSLR as Cannikon is the big player

It can be done. Pros look for value because their clients do. Many a pro market has swung to new entrants who offer better products at better value.

[rawr]

Many a pro market has swung to new entrants who offer better products at better value.

And better features. The pro market is not monolithic. Sports photogs don't work the same as wedding photogs or photo journalists, for example. Some of the feature requirements (eg high fps) may be very specific to their trade. If they need a special tool to make their income, they won't usually be hunting bargains in order to get it.