K1000d

**fretlessdavis** · 02-19-2014, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

"Shumilova told us her passion for photography manifested in early 2012 when she got her first camera. "
Russian Mother Takes Magical Pictures of Her Two Kids With Animals On Her Farm | Bored Panda

I would hardly call that mastery.

Like with any other art, If you think there's no room for improvement from education or other training or criticism, and you believe yourself has mastered the art, then you have stopped progressing, and will likely get no better than where you are.

jogiba · 02-19-2014, 12:57 PM

Flickr: aleshurik's Photostream

Really ?

**fretlessdavis** · 02-19-2014, 12:59 PM - **1 Like**

It's definitely good, but all pretty much one style. Again, if you think there isn't room for improvement, then you won't ever improve... I wouldn't call her a 'master of photography' until I can see how she can handle other scenes. Also, they all looked pretty heavily PP'ed to me... Hard to say exactly the quality of what's coming directly out of the camera.

---------- Post added 02-19-14 at 01:02 PM ----------

Also, picking ONE phtographer as an example of why we don't need education is dumb. Not everyone that picks up a camera will learn that quickly, and learn by themselves, just as their are plenty of people who can learn how to write, or Calculus, just by doing.

It's also unfair to say that if you can't figure it out yourself, you have no way of becoming 'professional'

People learn different things in different ways. It shows a lack of understanding of the learning process to think we don't need education in photography.

Tesla · 02-19-2014, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

What ? There is youtube.
Photography Tutorial - FIRST Lesson! What is Aperture ? DSLR Photography Lesson for Beginners - YouTube

Doesn't change the fact that there are classes.

BTW would you hire a mechanic that learned from youtube or one that took classes and certified?

Na Horuk · 02-19-2014, 04:51 PM

Ha! "Finally Pentax has FF! But no AF, SR, automation!" People would explode over such a camera, declare Pentax to be doooomed

Tesla · 02-19-2014, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Ha! "Finally Pentax has FF! But no AF, SR, automation!" People would explode over such a camera, declare Pentax to be doooomed

Did you read the thread? I have said many times I want to see a top of a line flagship FF first.

**TomB_tx** · 02-19-2014, 06:56 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Ha! "Finally Pentax has FF! But no AF, SR, automation!" People would explode over such a camera, declare Pentax to be doooomed

Right, but I never found a digital I could like until Leica introduced the M9, which has no AF, SR, or automation... And it is still my preferred digital. There is a (small) market who don't like all those things.

Na Horuk · 02-20-2014, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Tesla

Did you read the thread? I have said many times I want to see a top of a line flagship FF first.

No, I did not go read whole 4 pages about yet another FF idea.
And don't get me wrong, I would like a minimalist FF, or a mirrorless FF (as a successor to the K-01). But the reaction of the photography community (even users from other brands) would still be bonkers

Beaugrand · 02-20-2014, 05:34 AM

The minimalist FF dSLR sort of depends on there being a successful flagship, all-the-bells-and-whistles, you-can't-afford-it FF dSLR first, to recover the investment of going with the FF sensor. After sales of the fancy expensive model peaks, derivative, less-expensive models can be introduced, with the MF minimalist model coming out last; or, next-to-last, as the "retro" styled MF minimalist can follow everything else.

jogiba · 02-20-2014, 06:32 AM

Ricoh is a business not a charity so forget the K1000d.

Beaugrand · 02-20-2014, 07:01 AM

Yes, Ricoh is a business; if there is a demand they will try to fill it. If they can do it without major development expense (e.g., deleting features from existing product) there is no reason not to, if the market is there.

**fretlessdavis** · 02-20-2014, 07:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jogiba

Ricoh is a business not a charity so forget the K1000d.

Yeah, because no legitimate business has ever donated anything as part of a marketing plan before...

For the record, again, FF in this regard is definitley not viable. At this point, though, if they did strip out a camera and use the K-X or K-5 sensor, cost would be incredibly low.

Plus, there's an advantage of getting students started on Pentax, don't you think? If they're used to Pentax and learned to like them, don't you think they might look at the higher end ones to buy for themselves?

Beaugrand · 02-20-2014, 07:30 AM

Survey re: manual-only dSLR: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MZ6FVKB

Just so we have some actual information to bandy about.

Fogel70 · 02-20-2014, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Beaugrand

Yes, Ricoh is a business; if there is a demand they will try to fill it. If they can do it without major development expense (e.g., deleting features from existing product) there is no reason not to, if the market is there.

It will cost more in R&D to remove existing features than to keep them.
To make an all manual DSLR cheap they will need to re-use as much as possible from a full featured high volume camera. Maybe by using a K-500 with the mode dial fixed to M-mode and AF motor removed they can produce a cheap all manual DSLR, but this camera will most likely be more expensive than the full featured K-500 as it will be produced in low volume.

**Tony Belding** · 02-20-2014, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Tesla

A fully manual camera forces the student to learn how to use a slr camera.. otherwise they just leave it on auto.. might as well get point and shoot. Lots of cheap FF glass out there also.

Is that really the issue, seriously? Photography students these days just don't have the discipline and can't be trusted to turn the little dial from "Auto" or "SCN" to something more challenging? If that's really it, then there could still be a K-500 with those automatic modes disabled in the firmware. I wouldn't miss them, and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than developing a special new FF camera.

And yes... There is lots of cheap old FF glass out there that also works on a K-500. If cheapness is a serious goal, then the whole idea of starting with a FF sensor that costs several hundred dollars by itself just seems perverse.

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02-19-2014, 12:39 PM	#46
fretlessdavis Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Port Angeles, WA Photos: Gallery Posts: 505	Originally posted by jogiba "Shumilova told us her passion for photography manifested in early 2012 when she got her first camera. " Russian Mother Takes Magical Pictures of Her Two Kids With Animals On Her Farm \| Bored Panda I would hardly call that mastery. Like with any other art, If you think there's no room for improvement from education or other training or criticism, and you believe yourself has mastered the art, then you have stopped progressing, and will likely get no better than where you are.

02-19-2014, 12:57 PM	#47
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Flickr: aleshurik's Photostream Really ?

02-19-2014, 12:59 PM - 1 Like	#48
fretlessdavis Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Port Angeles, WA Photos: Gallery Posts: 505	It's definitely good, but all pretty much one style. Again, if you think there isn't room for improvement, then you won't ever improve... I wouldn't call her a 'master of photography' until I can see how she can handle other scenes. Also, they all looked pretty heavily PP'ed to me... Hard to say exactly the quality of what's coming directly out of the camera. ---------- Post added 02-19-14 at 01:02 PM ---------- Also, picking ONE phtographer as an example of why we don't need education is dumb. Not everyone that picks up a camera will learn that quickly, and learn by themselves, just as their are plenty of people who can learn how to write, or Calculus, just by doing. It's also unfair to say that if you can't figure it out yourself, you have no way of becoming 'professional' People learn different things in different ways. It shows a lack of understanding of the learning process to think we don't need education in photography.

02-19-2014, 01:35 PM	#49
Tesla Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 589 Original Poster	Originally posted by jogiba What ? There is youtube. Photography Tutorial - FIRST Lesson! What is Aperture ? DSLR Photography Lesson for Beginners - YouTube Doesn't change the fact that there are classes. BTW would you hire a mechanic that learned from youtube or one that took classes and certified?

02-19-2014, 04:51 PM	#50
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Ha! "Finally Pentax has FF! But no AF, SR, automation!" People would explode over such a camera, declare Pentax to be doooomed

02-19-2014, 06:36 PM	#51
Tesla Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 589 Original Poster	Originally posted by Na Horuk Ha! "Finally Pentax has FF! But no AF, SR, automation!" People would explode over such a camera, declare Pentax to be doooomed Did you read the thread? I have said many times I want to see a top of a line flagship FF first.

02-19-2014, 06:56 PM - 1 Like	#52
TomB_tx Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,446	Originally posted by Na Horuk Ha! "Finally Pentax has FF! But no AF, SR, automation!" People would explode over such a camera, declare Pentax to be doooomed Right, but I never found a digital I could like until Leica introduced the M9, which has no AF, SR, or automation... And it is still my preferred digital. There is a (small) market who don't like all those things.

02-20-2014, 05:20 AM	#53
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by Tesla Did you read the thread? I have said many times I want to see a top of a line flagship FF first. No, I did not go read whole 4 pages about yet another FF idea. And don't get me wrong, I would like a minimalist FF, or a mirrorless FF (as a successor to the K-01). But the reaction of the photography community (even users from other brands) would still be bonkers

02-20-2014, 05:34 AM	#54
Beaugrand Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 63	The minimalist FF dSLR sort of depends on there being a successful flagship, all-the-bells-and-whistles, you-can't-afford-it FF dSLR first, to recover the investment of going with the FF sensor. After sales of the fancy expensive model peaks, derivative, less-expensive models can be introduced, with the MF minimalist model coming out last; or, next-to-last, as the "retro" styled MF minimalist can follow everything else.

02-20-2014, 06:32 AM	#55
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Ricoh is a business not a charity so forget the K1000d.

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02-20-2014, 07:01 AM	#56
Beaugrand Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 63	Yes, Ricoh is a business; if there is a demand they will try to fill it. If they can do it without major development expense (e.g., deleting features from existing product) there is no reason not to, if the market is there.

02-20-2014, 07:25 AM - 1 Like	#57
fretlessdavis Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Port Angeles, WA Photos: Gallery Posts: 505	Originally posted by jogiba Ricoh is a business not a charity so forget the K1000d. Yeah, because no legitimate business has ever donated anything as part of a marketing plan before... For the record, again, FF in this regard is definitley not viable. At this point, though, if they did strip out a camera and use the K-X or K-5 sensor, cost would be incredibly low. Plus, there's an advantage of getting students started on Pentax, don't you think? If they're used to Pentax and learned to like them, don't you think they might look at the higher end ones to buy for themselves?

02-20-2014, 07:30 AM	#58
Beaugrand Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 63	Survey re: manual-only dSLR: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MZ6FVKB Just so we have some actual information to bandy about.

02-20-2014, 07:48 AM	#59
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Beaugrand Yes, Ricoh is a business; if there is a demand they will try to fill it. If they can do it without major development expense (e.g., deleting features from existing product) there is no reason not to, if the market is there. It will cost more in R&D to remove existing features than to keep them. To make an all manual DSLR cheap they will need to re-use as much as possible from a full featured high volume camera. Maybe by using a K-500 with the mode dial fixed to M-mode and AF motor removed they can produce a cheap all manual DSLR, but this camera will most likely be more expensive than the full featured K-500 as it will be produced in low volume.

02-20-2014, 08:08 AM	#60
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	Originally posted by Tesla A fully manual camera forces the student to learn how to use a slr camera.. otherwise they just leave it on auto.. might as well get point and shoot. Lots of cheap FF glass out there also. Is that really the issue, seriously? Photography students these days just don't have the discipline and can't be trusted to turn the little dial from "Auto" or "SCN" to something more challenging? If that's really it, then there could still be a K-500 with those automatic modes disabled in the firmware. I wouldn't miss them, and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than developing a special new FF camera. And yes... There is lots of cheap old FF glass out there that also works on a K-500. If cheapness is a serious goal, then the whole idea of starting with a FF sensor that costs several hundred dollars by itself just seems perverse.