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02-20-2014, 08:16 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
Yeah, because no legitimate business has ever donated anything as part of a marketing plan before...

For the record, again, FF in this regard is definitley not viable. At this point, though, if they did strip out a camera and use the K-X or K-5 sensor, cost would be incredibly low.

Plus, there's an advantage of getting students started on Pentax, don't you think? If they're used to Pentax and learned to like them, don't you think they might look at the higher end ones to buy for themselves?
What advantage ? Pentax is not on any schools radar screen in 2014. Remember the K1000 came out in 1976 and most young people don't want the same camera their parents used when they were in school. The future is full frame mirrorless with EVF and Ricoh is asleep at the switch.

02-20-2014, 08:38 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
What advantage ? Pentax is not on any schools radar screen in 2014. Remember the K1000 came out in 1976 and most young people don't want the same camera their parents used when they were in school. The future is full frame mirrorless with EVF and Ricoh is asleep at the switch.
Oh, I'm so glad you can read the future. How long will I live then?

There are many uses to the different systems, each having advantages and disadvantages. Saying one is going to be 'the future' is definitely not accurate.

Most people I know that did film photography in High School or College used Pentax. Who cares if Pentax isn't on school's radar right now?

Look at it this way-- do you know why Apple laptops are so popular these days? (not iPhones, etc) but their laptops and desktops.

It's because they DONATED thousands of the original iMacs to schools everywhere, and got students and teachers used to how they worked. It wasn't until Dell stepped in when those were aging, providing a massive subsidized purchase of Dell PCs for school districts.

Don't underestimate the power education has on the market. These days, it's whoever donates the most or whoever does it the cheapest gets the contract. Especially since donations can be written off, it would be an excellent campaign to get students using Pentax and familiar with Pentax.
02-20-2014, 11:26 AM   #63
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FF or not...I'd support a Pentax DSLR similar to the Nikon Df. I just like having all of my controls right at my fingertips - instead of having to dig through menus when I want to make a quick change. (Of course in digital-land there will be a few things that may have to be menu-controlled.) I think auto-focus needs to be there - BUT there should be a huge concession made for focus and metering ability through the viewfinder. Not sure that video is necessary in a camera of this type. This should be a camera for photography's sake...not a be all - end all tool for everything visual.

Honestly, (and I know I should be ashamed of myself for saying this after 25 years with a Pentax) if I had $3k...I'd sell all of Pentax gear/glass and buy a Nikon Df...it's just a beautiful piece of kit. I really wish we had something equivalent (full-frame or not).
02-20-2014, 12:45 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
Oh, I'm so glad you can read the future. How long will I live then?

There are many uses to the different systems, each having advantages and disadvantages. Saying one is going to be 'the future' is definitely not accurate.

Most people I know that did film photography in High School or College used Pentax. Who cares if Pentax isn't on school's radar right now?

Look at it this way-- do you know why Apple laptops are so popular these days? (not iPhones, etc) but their laptops and desktops.

It's because they DONATED thousands of the original iMacs to schools everywhere, and got students and teachers used to how they worked. It wasn't until Dell stepped in when those were aging, providing a massive subsidized purchase of Dell PCs for school districts.

Don't underestimate the power education has on the market. These days, it's whoever donates the most or whoever does it the cheapest gets the contract. Especially since donations can be written off, it would be an excellent campaign to get students using Pentax and familiar with Pentax.
Good luck telling some young person that Pentax/Ricoh is just like Apple in 2014. People use Macs because they prefer OS X over Windows.

02-20-2014, 12:50 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Good luck telling some young person that Pentax/Ricoh is just like Apple in 2014. People use Macs because they prefer OS X over Windows.
People prefer OSX over Windows because my generation (currently I'd say anyone from 21-28) used MAC OS in their schools because of the heavy subsidies, discounts, and donations they gave to schools.
02-20-2014, 01:01 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
People prefer OSX over Windows because my generation (currently I'd say anyone from 21-28) used MAC OS in their schools because of the heavy subsidies, discounts, and donations they gave to schools.
That's certainly not the case here in the UK, yet you walk onto any uni campus and it's flush with Macs. I think a lot of it is down to brand cache, which comes with ad spending or aspirational purchasing typically...
02-20-2014, 01:02 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
People prefer OSX over Windows because my generation (currently I'd say anyone from 21-28) used MAC OS in their schools because of the heavy subsidies, discounts, and donations they gave to schools.
Google powered ChromeBooks have over a 20% market share in schools and they only started with a 1% share a year ago.
02-20-2014, 01:13 PM - 1 Like   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Google powered ChromeBooks have over a 20% market share in schools and they only started with a 1% share a year ago.
Great! So something with little to no interest for schools right now could increase 2000% in one year? Even more reason for Pentax to step it up.

Also, I think you misunderstand how large the retro/vintage movement is in young people these days. Many people shoot old Pentaxes *becasue* their grandparents shot old Pentaxes.

Interesting note about Apple and Europe. Apple in the USA is actually one of the prime examples of marketing by donations to education. Nowadays, anyone younger than me my more than a couple years wants an Apple because of the iPhone and other dumb things Apple has brought us. Back when I was a younger, people wanted Macs because they were familiar with them, and it was easier to transfer stuff back and forth to school.

Anyways, a lot of interesting points of view here, but I think most of you guys underestimate how quickly and radically markets can change these days, and the effectiveness of more 'guerrilla' type marketing.

02-23-2014, 02:41 AM   #69
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Film did not have EXIFs, the stamping of which onto the image ensures compliance with the instructor's hypothetical demand the students shoot in manual mode.

And if shooting in manual is somehow a prerequisite for taking good pictures independently of being told it is to be done, then it's the student's -- learner's -- responsibility to do so.

In this case I agree that a K500 is as good a learning camera as the K1000. Much better, actually, because it forces you to confront white balance and other issues of development you could once leave to the professionals in their darkrooms.
02-23-2014, 06:14 AM   #70
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QuoteQuote:
Also, I think you misunderstand how large the retro/vintage movement is in young people these days. Many people shoot old Pentaxes *becasue* their grandparents shot old Pentaxes.
I guess Arizona is a special case since it's not like that here in NJ.
02-23-2014, 06:41 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Woolcott Quote
That's certainly not the case here in the UK, yet you walk onto any uni campus and it's flush with Macs. I think a lot of it is down to brand cache, which comes with ad spending or aspirational purchasing typically...
It was only a few years ago that if you used MAC-anything you were considered wierd, it was the iPod & iPhone generations (and 'form factor') that drove the power books into where they are now.

There's no market for a basic FF DSLR, the Df is the equivalent of $4000 (USD) in the UK and aimed at old-school Nikon owners who have money to burn (not knocking that, but it's a million miles away from this thread). There's nothing to suggest a Pentax 'retro' FF would be any cheaper and lots to suggest it would be more expensive (smaller market, lower volumes, no existing platform...).

The 'technical' side of photography education today shouldn't be about MF, aperture, shutter speed and ISO (that should be weeks 1, 2 & 3 - with instant feedback & exif, learning this is much easier than before), it should be about sharpening, noise-reduction, colour spaces/profiles, post-processing etc. etc.

A K1000D would make no sense until a full-spec FF DSLR is established, many of us might want/suggest/demand one, but if one were made only a handful of us would pay the $$$$ for it. There would be so many reasons why it didn't meet our own personal anticipated feature (de-feature?) list - and for the likely cost it would have to tick all those boxes.

John

Last edited by johnha; 02-23-2014 at 06:44 AM. Reason: Added comma
02-23-2014, 06:52 AM   #72
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K 1000d

I thought it was understood that a manual dSLR, like a K 1000d, would be a follow-on to a successful, mainstream, all-the-bells-and-whistles, full-featured, full size, Full Frame dSLR. Only after the development costs for the afore-mentioned "flagship" dSLR would there be any sorts of feature-deleted, cheaper follow-on Full Frame models being offered to the unwashed hordes who can't afford a top-of-the-line camera (which cheaper model might carry the Ricoh brand, so as not to offend the more-moneyed?)

Last edited by Beaugrand; 02-23-2014 at 06:57 AM.
02-23-2014, 01:30 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
we should get rid all traditional schools, since anyone can post a video online... why do we need teachers? Can't you just go on YouTube and learn how to write an essay instead of having to go to school?
Your ideas intrigue me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

02-23-2014, 01:36 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Your ideas intrigue me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Not sure if you think I'm serious or not...
02-24-2014, 09:25 AM   #75
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There will not be any student edition FF....that is what the K500 would be for

---------- Post added 02-24-2014 at 10:26 AM ----------

On this contest for the 1.8 lens, do they care about repeating
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