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View Poll Results: Would you buy a Pentax Full Frame DSLR? extended poll
I have money and will buy FF 7758.33%
I have money but won't buy FF 1410.61%
I don't have money but I want to buy FF 3325.00%
I don' have money and will not buy FF 86.06%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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03-29-2015, 04:44 AM   #106
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Just bought a D610

I own a k3 + K5 and have just bought a Nikon D610 and apart from focusing in dark situations it's better than anything Pentax that I've used. Where I live in Asia Pentax is more expensive than a lot of Canon and Nikon APSC cameras. The resale value of Pentax is lower than any other camera company out there, and to be honest they have brought it on themselves by their lack of advertising and not being on the high street. As someone who once loved Pentax I feel I can no longer defend a company that cares so little about it's user base. The AF on the D610 is head and shoulders above the K3 and it was only $1500. Ok so it's quite old now but I can guarantee the new Pentax will be at least 2k but closer to 2.5k if their new FF zooms are anything to go by.

03-29-2015, 11:40 AM   #107
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I think the resale value on Pentax stuff is fine. Since I've purchased most of my lenses, the price has gone up so much that in many cases I can make money when I sell the lenses.

That said I agree with you on the Nikon. People on this board mock the 600/610 which surprises me, to say the least.
03-29-2015, 02:51 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by jarvyboy Quote
The AF on the D610 is head and shoulders above the K3 and it was only $1500. Ok so it's quite old now but I can guarantee the new Pentax will be at least 2k but closer to 2.5k if their new FF zooms are anything to go by.
Any FF camera, using same AF system as it s crop peer, is bound to have faster AF performance because by default is catches twice as much light, and has 50% larger DoF. FF wins, hands down, especially for amateur users who can't use DSLRs. For most DSLR users, FF is the way to go, because their focusing techniques are poor and they need plenty of advantage to feel happy.

Most of PF members qualify, together with mirrorless folks who cannot imagine anything without heavy processing of the obvious and be spoon fed all the time.

That is the FF AF fact that Pentax has never addressed, as it never made an FF camera to finally silence endless complaints about the "poor performance" of the AF system.

As for the Pentax FF price, well, if you are not willing to pay for the features of the D810 plus more, in a body that will sell for less than a D810, then we have personal integrity problem — which is not a problem Pentax should address, but users. A brief reading of Aristotelian Ethics and Dialogues of Socrates can help.
03-29-2015, 10:15 PM   #109
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@ Uluru Most other Crop sensor cameras from Nikon and canon are faster than Pentax AF! It's a fact that has long needed addressing with Pentax. Yes it's slowly getting better but still a long way behind the big two. I have owned a km, a k5 and a k3 and I can tell you I know how to focus a camera thanks! The fact remains the D610 has a much more sophisticated AF module than anything Pentax has at this time and I'm confident that it will still be better than the Pentax FF when it's released this year!
So PLEASE get off your high horse your condescending cloud and take off your Pentax spectacles! I am going to keep my Pentax stuff as I have no choice but my money will now be spent elsewhere, somewhere where I can just walk in off the high street and try it!

04-02-2015, 04:46 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by jarvyboy Quote
@ Uluru Most other Crop sensor cameras from Nikon and canon are faster than Pentax AF! It's a fact that has long needed addressing with Pentax. Yes it's slowly getting better but still a long way behind the big two. I have owned a km, a k5 and a k3 and I can tell you I know how to focus a camera thanks! The fact remains the D610 has a much more sophisticated AF module than anything Pentax has at this time and I'm confident that it will still be better than the Pentax FF when it's released this year!
So PLEASE get off your high horse your condescending cloud and take off your Pentax spectacles! I am going to keep my Pentax stuff as I have no choice but my money will now be spent elsewhere, somewhere where I can just walk in off the high street and try it!

AF speed is the most subjective feeling on this planet. And is one most manipulated with.
It is one big cheat.

Canon and Nikon both cheat big time in signalling beep, by announcing focus affirmation before it happened, and leaving servo and DoF to do the rest. It's a fraction of a second they are buying, but one that tricks people's perception big time and constantly goes on unverified of the truth.

Why and how?

Nikon and Canon are duopoly. They mirror each other, and if one does something, the other must do the same, but say, a fraction better. Only way to break certain natural barriers is then to start cheating and cutting corners.

Did you know that conscious reaction to happen, it must pass between 0.3 and 0.5 sec before our mind registers something has happened? When you see something, you don't see it when it actually happens — you confirm it later. That is the recognition that something has really happened. Same with hearing, smelling, touching. If you cut your finger, and in 0.1-0.2 sec after it you stop the nerve to carry on the signal, your brain will register no pain.

Similarly, if you shorten the real time required for accurate focusing, by signalling beep 0.2 secs earlier, you get a head-start in people's perception and your camera suddenly "locks-in faster". It has superior AF! I watched that fellow from Canadian photo store, falling for this trick, when he judges focusing speed of two cameras by how soon he hears "beep" from each. I was laughing, then crying in disbelief — today's revivers have no clue. And the audience buys that lie publicly advertised through misinformed shows like that.

But, if you annulate all subjective opinions about beeps, and use testing equipment in a soundproof room, like Panasonic did a couple of years back, you may find out that Pentax camera has much consistently better focusing than Nikon, and also better than Canon. Which means, Pentax produces more keepers. Ha! Now, we are onto something. This means, Nikon and Canon cut corners only to appear faster to our perception, but cannot fool testing equipment that does not posses conscious mind.

However, in minds of newbies, damage has already been done because they are programmed to believe perception but not truth established through elimination of manipulated perception.

Pentax AF works very much like our conscious mind. It
— locks on in real time, not before time
— beeps after an algorithm confirms focus (not just affirm, but confirm),
— does not rely on servo or on DoF to get acceptable focus

And therefore, it must appear slower. Because it is honest. Same as our mind is slower than a computer, because our mind cannot affirm anything — we consciously understand only by positively confirming. It is called double check. Without double check, we as beings would be extinct!

For example, your leg is bleeding, but you feel no pain because the signal is cut short and does not reach brain — something is wrong, yet your body sounds no alarm. You may bleed off all your blood and die, not knowing what happened. But when you see leg bleeding, and ascertain that fact with feeling pain, then you confirm, and only then you take action. That is double check. Because we require double-check, humans suffer from burns, traffic accidents, etc. Double check requires more processing time because time is need to establish truth.

So, please, if you want to live in perception-fooling world of quasi-photography, stick to whatever Nikon you have.
And continue buying lies they sell, and watching shows that sell big lies.

I stick with Pentax because I know the camera tells the truth. But if I want faster response, I train myself and my mind to react sooner. That is only possible if a photographer learns to observe, anticipate, and see things before they happen. It requires patience, mileage and some vision.

And that is what is called "decisive moment' in photography. Like any honest skill, to master it takes ... time.
Decisive moment was thoroughly defined and lived by man great photographers long before AF was invented.

Last edited by Uluru; 04-02-2015 at 05:45 AM.
04-02-2015, 05:07 AM   #111
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Every thread turns into a Nikon fanboy thread... it's so disappointing you can't talk about the coming Pentax FF without Nikon enthusiasts jumping into the thread with their silly "It's all about me and my D610." It's comical.

Do all these dudes have serious inferiorty complexes? Are they trying to get us to follow them to the promised land? The Pied Pipers of D610dom. Or is it the cult of the 610. My buddy with his two D4x bodies snears at you. I guess you come here to push the D610 stuff in our face because you think you're one up on everyone here. Being pretty much the bottom of the Nikon FF heap, you're not going to get any respect on a Nikon forum, so maybe the Pentax forum will applaud your wisdom? Is that the way it works?

Last edited by normhead; 04-02-2015 at 05:12 AM.
04-02-2015, 05:11 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Every thread turns into a Nikon fanboy thread... it's so disappointing you can't talk about the coming Pentax FF without Nikon enthusiasts jumping into the thread with their silly "It's all about me and my D610." It's comical. Do all these dudes have serious inferiorty complexes?
I could try to turn it into a Sony fanboy thread instead, if you like a change? After all, Pentax, Nikons, it's all Sony inside anyway, so I don't understand the rivalry.
04-02-2015, 05:35 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I could try to turn it into a Sony fanboy thread instead, if you like a change? After all, Pentax, Nikons, it's all Sony inside anyway, so I don't understand the rivalry.
Go for it... at least the Sony's are a camera I actually think about from time to time, because of the small footprint it would have as the rarely used second body in my camera bag.

I mean there are situations with that perfect sunset or whatever, where you actually think, "I wish I had larger format with more resolution for this." But I usually think A7r or D810, 645D or 645z. D610, not so much.

And even if you had the 645, you'd still want bigger. Until you're shooting 8x10 film, the thought of shooting bigger in the perfect situation never leaves your head. A D610 certainly isn't going to solve that. I remember once when I was shooting 8x10 film wondering if there was some way to concoct an 11x14 camera, and use x-ray film or something.

Imagine 11-14 fine grain film. You'd actually shrink the grain instead of enlarging it to make an 8x10... what a concept.


Last edited by normhead; 04-02-2015 at 06:25 AM.
04-02-2015, 07:12 AM - 1 Like   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I could try to turn it into a Sony fanboy thread instead, if you like a change? After all, Pentax, Nikons, it's all Sony inside anyway, so I don't understand the rivalry.
You beat me to it.
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