Pentax mirrorless FF?

Kunzite · 05-03-2013, 11:43 PM

The Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon is about $1087, and it's a somewhat more complex design than the Sonnar. I'd like to know which computations were made in order to reach the $1800 figure...

Last edited by Kunzite; 05-03-2013 at 11:49 PM.

Bestzoom · 05-03-2013, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon is about $1087.

It may cost more for Zeiss 35mm f2 with AF....if there is one!

Kunzite · 05-03-2013, 11:58 PM

That would actually be a Sony CZ 35mm f/2, right?

Bestzoom · 05-04-2013, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

That would actually be a Sony CZ 35mm f/2, right?

There is no ZA version of this lens (FF Sony mount with AF).
The FF Zeiss lenses on the market , either ZF(nikon mount), ZE (Canon mount) and ZM (Leica mount) are all manual lenses. There will be a ZA Zeiss 50 f1.4 lens (FF with AF but Sony mount) available to ship in July 2013 with a price tag of US 1500.00.
The new Touit (Zeiss) for Fuji X mount with AF is for APSc sensor only.

Kunzite · 05-04-2013, 05:50 AM

I was talking about a hypothetical comparable Sony CZ 35mm f/2 mirrorless AF lens; this is the one said to cost $1800.
The Zeiss Planar 50mm f/1.4 lenses are around $670-$725, depending on the mount (M42 being cheaper), so maybe it's all about how much would Zeiss surcharge for the amazing and unique benefit of having AF.

philbaum · 05-04-2013, 07:36 AM

I've found a new way, for me, to browse dpreview. instead of going to a specific forum, i look at the hot threads list to see if there's anything interesting to me.

Anyway, this got me to the Sony SLT/dslr forum and found this post: New SLT free alpha models work like the V1 Nikon concept....: Sony Alpha SLR/SLT Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Quote:

SAR is a very good source of information... BUT it is

a very badly kept secret that all camera manufactureres are working on larger sensor

mirrorless systems and the way the V1 is constructed is one of the only working solutions

that you can do it like if you still want to use the phase detect system......

What is important is that there is no big change for the lens system that makes the lenses

you have redundant....

Peter

This is pretty thin, i know. Later in the thread, someone writes that folks should just stay with the existing mirror reflex system because of its durable. The reply was its not so durable. Then i remember right after the K5 was first introduced, there were 2 reports from folks who had used their K5 cameras with a lot of "spray and pray" type shooting. To the extent that their cameras were then having problems with the mirror/shutter actuating - forget the details. I have to admit using continuous shooting in small spurts to my advantage with actors on stage a few times.

So perhaps this "eliminate the mirror flopping" effort is a lot more serious than some of us think.

Kunzite · 05-04-2013, 08:18 AM

IMO "larger sensor mirrorless systems" means m4/3 and larger, but mainly m4/3 + APS-C.

robgo2 · 05-04-2013, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

The Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon is about $1087, and it's a somewhat more complex design than the Sonnar. I'd like to know which computations were made in order to reach the $1800 figure...

Although I am the one who first mentioned that estimated price (which has been batted around the internet), I have no desire to defend it. Whether the lens itself would cost $1200 or $1800, the RX1's body and FF sensor are still reasonably priced, IMO. How Sony managed to pack so much quality into such a small space is a wonder of design and engineering, something that in my mind makes it more valuable than larger bodies. Others may disagree. Too bad that Pentax did not come up with it first. That would have given their brand some much needed heat.

Rob

rawr · 05-04-2013, 03:40 PM

Speaking of the RX1, I think the only real mirrorless competitor for the RX1 solely in IQ terms (at lower ISO's) seems to be the Sigma DP2M. Makes me wonder what a FF Foveon would perform like!

robgo2 · 05-04-2013, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Speaking of the RX1, I think the only real mirrorless competitor for the RX1 solely in IQ terms (at lower ISO's) seems to be the Sigma DP2M. Makes me wonder what a FF Foveon would perform like!

I have read that all of the Sigma DPMs have amazing IQ but severe usability problems. They are niche of a niche cameras. In contrast, the RX1 begs to be used.

Rob

Bestzoom · 05-05-2013, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by robgo2

I have read that all of the Sigma DPMs have amazing IQ but severe usability problems. They are niche of a niche cameras. In contrast, the RX1 begs to be used.

Ahhhhhh...... Where are we talking about RX1 while discussing Pentax mirror less which is still at concept stage?

Now i have to get one!

robgo2 · 05-05-2013, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Bestzoom

Ahhhhhh...... Where are we talking about RX1 while discussing Pentax mirror less which is still at concept stage?

Now i have to get one!

This is a Pentax forum, and I am not trying to sell anyone on a camera from a different manufacturer. I just brought up the RX1 in this thread as an example of where the mirrorless camera field may be heading. From my experience, I would say that the potential is very high, and I hope that Pentax will soon participate with a knockout camera. In the meantime, for those who cannot wait or do not have faith that Pentax will deliver the goods, the RX1 is well worth considering. Just be sure that you can accept the inherent limitations of a fixed lens, single focal length camera. If you can, as I have, you will most likely love it.

Rob

Bestzoom · 05-05-2013, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by robgo2

This is a Pentax forum, and I am not trying to sell anyone on a camera from a different manufacturer. I just brought up the RX1 in this thread as an example of where the mirrorless camera field may be heading. From my experience, I would say that the potential is very high, and I hope that Pentax will soon participate with a knockout camera. In the meantime, for those who cannot wait or do not have faith that Pentax will deliver the goods, the RX1 is well worth considering. Just be sure that you can accept the inherent limitations of a fixed lens, single focal length camera. If you can, as I have, you will most likely love it.

Thank you for sharing it.
Personally i wish there is a Pentax FF but i have little faith it will happen. We will probably be discussing similar thread about FF Pentax come 1st April next year....

05-04-2013, 07:36 AM	#96
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	"all companies are working on FF mirrorless" I've found a new way, for me, to browse dpreview. instead of going to a specific forum, i look at the hot threads list to see if there's anything interesting to me. Anyway, this got me to the Sony SLT/dslr forum and found this post: New SLT free alpha models work like the V1 Nikon concept....: Sony Alpha SLR/SLT Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Quote: SAR is a very good source of information... BUT it is a very badly kept secret that all camera manufactureres are working on larger sensor mirrorless systems and the way the V1 is constructed is one of the only working solutions that you can do it like if you still want to use the phase detect system...... What is important is that there is no big change for the lens system that makes the lenses you have redundant.... Peter This is pretty thin, i know. Later in the thread, someone writes that folks should just stay with the existing mirror reflex system because of its durable. The reply was its not so durable. Then i remember right after the K5 was first introduced, there were 2 reports from folks who had used their K5 cameras with a lot of "spray and pray" type shooting. To the extent that their cameras were then having problems with the mirror/shutter actuating - forget the details. I have to admit using continuous shooting in small spurts to my advantage with actors on stage a few times. So perhaps this "eliminate the mirror flopping" effort is a lot more serious than some of us think.

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05-03-2013, 11:43 PM	#91
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon is about $1087, and it's a somewhat more complex design than the Sonnar. I'd like to know which computations were made in order to reach the $1800 figure... Last edited by Kunzite; 05-03-2013 at 11:49 PM.

05-03-2013, 11:46 PM	#92
Bestzoom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 232 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kunzite The Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon is about $1087. It may cost more for Zeiss 35mm f2 with AF....if there is one!

05-03-2013, 11:58 PM	#93
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	That would actually be a Sony CZ 35mm f/2, right?

05-04-2013, 05:13 AM	#94
Bestzoom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 232 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kunzite That would actually be a Sony CZ 35mm f/2, right? There is no ZA version of this lens (FF Sony mount with AF). The FF Zeiss lenses on the market , either ZF(nikon mount), ZE (Canon mount) and ZM (Leica mount) are all manual lenses. There will be a ZA Zeiss 50 f1.4 lens (FF with AF but Sony mount) available to ship in July 2013 with a price tag of US 1500.00. The new Touit (Zeiss) for Fuji X mount with AF is for APSc sensor only.

05-04-2013, 05:50 AM	#95
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I was talking about a hypothetical comparable Sony CZ 35mm f/2 mirrorless AF lens; this is the one said to cost $1800. The Zeiss Planar 50mm f/1.4 lenses are around $670-$725, depending on the mount (M42 being cheaper), so maybe it's all about how much would Zeiss surcharge for the amazing and unique benefit of having AF.

05-04-2013, 08:18 AM	#97
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	IMO "larger sensor mirrorless systems" means m4/3 and larger, but mainly m4/3 + APS-C.

05-04-2013, 02:09 PM	#98
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by Kunzite The Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon is about $1087, and it's a somewhat more complex design than the Sonnar. I'd like to know which computations were made in order to reach the $1800 figure... Although I am the one who first mentioned that estimated price (which has been batted around the internet), I have no desire to defend it. Whether the lens itself would cost $1200 or $1800, the RX1's body and FF sensor are still reasonably priced, IMO. How Sony managed to pack so much quality into such a small space is a wonder of design and engineering, something that in my mind makes it more valuable than larger bodies. Others may disagree. Too bad that Pentax did not come up with it first. That would have given their brand some much needed heat. Rob

05-04-2013, 03:40 PM	#99
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Speaking of the RX1, I think the only real mirrorless competitor for the RX1 solely in IQ terms (at lower ISO's) seems to be the Sigma DP2M. Makes me wonder what a FF Foveon would perform like!

05-04-2013, 10:27 PM	#100
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by rawr Speaking of the RX1, I think the only real mirrorless competitor for the RX1 solely in IQ terms (at lower ISO's) seems to be the Sigma DP2M. Makes me wonder what a FF Foveon would perform like! I have read that all of the Sigma DPMs have amazing IQ but severe usability problems. They are niche of a niche cameras. In contrast, the RX1 begs to be used. Rob

05-05-2013, 02:56 AM	#101
Bestzoom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 232 Original Poster	Originally posted by robgo2 I have read that all of the Sigma DPMs have amazing IQ but severe usability problems. They are niche of a niche cameras. In contrast, the RX1 begs to be used. Ahhhhhh...... Where are we talking about RX1 while discussing Pentax mirror less which is still at concept stage? Now i have to get one!

05-05-2013, 08:31 AM	#102
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by Bestzoom Ahhhhhh...... Where are we talking about RX1 while discussing Pentax mirror less which is still at concept stage? Now i have to get one! This is a Pentax forum, and I am not trying to sell anyone on a camera from a different manufacturer. I just brought up the RX1 in this thread as an example of where the mirrorless camera field may be heading. From my experience, I would say that the potential is very high, and I hope that Pentax will soon participate with a knockout camera. In the meantime, for those who cannot wait or do not have faith that Pentax will deliver the goods, the RX1 is well worth considering. Just be sure that you can accept the inherent limitations of a fixed lens, single focal length camera. If you can, as I have, you will most likely love it. Rob

05-05-2013, 02:38 PM	#103
Bestzoom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 232 Original Poster	Originally posted by robgo2 This is a Pentax forum, and I am not trying to sell anyone on a camera from a different manufacturer. I just brought up the RX1 in this thread as an example of where the mirrorless camera field may be heading. From my experience, I would say that the potential is very high, and I hope that Pentax will soon participate with a knockout camera. In the meantime, for those who cannot wait or do not have faith that Pentax will deliver the goods, the RX1 is well worth considering. Just be sure that you can accept the inherent limitations of a fixed lens, single focal length camera. If you can, as I have, you will most likely love it. Thank you for sharing it. Personally i wish there is a Pentax FF but i have little faith it will happen. We will probably be discussing similar thread about FF Pentax come 1st April next year....