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09-13-2013, 05:58 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
Sadly, now that I own a D600, the idea of full frame is not such a great lure; I doubt I will invest in another digital camera for a while, unless I sell the D600. I would likely see no need to buy a possible Pentax FF at this point, unless there was something really compelling for me to switch. For the Pentax marketing folks, the calculation has to be: how many people like me leak over to the other 3... and whether we're likely to come back to Pentax, and for what reason. (I don't see the need to buy another APS-C SLR for some while either, and by that time, who knows what the market will offer...)
I bought a D800 about a year ago, but I'm still hanging on to my Pentax gear, because it's so much more portable than the Nikon and its bulky lenses. I treat the D800 as a sort of medium format substitute and take it with me only for certain purposes, much as I did with my Bronica kit in film days. Although it's a fabulous camera, try as I might, I can't feel any affection towards the D800. I'm struggling to hold off buying a K-5 IIs as a second body to my K-5 in the hope that an even better offering from Pentax is around the corner, but if there's nothing forthcoming by the end of October, I reckon I'll pull the trigger.

09-13-2013, 06:08 AM   #317
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I bought a D800 about a year ago, but I'm still hanging on to my Pentax gear, because it's so much more portable than the Nikon and its bulky lenses. I treat the D800 as a sort of medium format substitute and take it with me only for certain purposes, much as I did with my Bronica kit in film days. Although it's a fabulous camera, try as I might, I can't feel any affection towards the D800. I'm struggling to hold off buying a K-5 IIs as a second body to my K-5 in the hope that an even better offering from Pentax is around the corner, but if there's nothing forthcoming by the end of October, I reckon I'll pull the trigger.
There has to be a 24 MP APS-c just around the corner, there just has to... unless it was like a 28 or a 30 or something like that.
09-13-2013, 06:18 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I bought a D800 about a year ago, but I'm still hanging on to my Pentax gear, because it's so much more portable than the Nikon and its bulky lenses. I treat the D800 as a sort of medium format substitute and take it with me only for certain purposes, much as I did with my Bronica kit in film days. Although it's a fabulous camera, try as I might, I can't feel any affection towards the D800.
I'm in the same boat, pretty much exactly. Currently I'm feeling the obligation to use the damn D600 and not my medium format film cameras because... I just bought the damn thing, and I want to try out the quality and possibilities to see where they go. Although, with a small prime the D600 isn't all that bad, but still nothing like a Pentax.
09-13-2013, 09:28 AM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I think the only market Pentax has left is folks like me who don't really need FullFrame, but might buy one just because it would make many of our lenses two lenses. I already often carry a second body. Imagine taking your FA50, but it's either a 50 or a 35 depending on which body you have it on. Apparently my 60-250 is FF, my A-400 is definitely FF, All I'd need would be a 24-70 or something like that.
A FA50 would be a 50mm- or a 75mm-equivalent depending on the crop factor, but yeah, it would be an advantage for sure.

QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
You know what would be awesome? A focal reducer for Pentax medium format lenses. It would reduce them to the FF image circle. Medium format field of view would be left in tact. They could make versions with and without auto focus.

Pentax FF DSLR + focal reducer = win. At least from a user perspective. I'm sure any number of people can immediately chime in about how it would never work because of the market, etc. But I can still fantasize...
My personal hope for this coming about is China, honestly. It took them about a month to duplicate the Metabones Speed Booster and they're cranking them out at a fraction of the price. I guarantee you they're not losing money at that price, either. Yeah, it'll get more costly as you scale them up, but I'd easily pay a couple hundred bucks to use my 105/2.4 as a 50/1.4 or 50/1.2 that's sharp all the way across the frame.

09-13-2013, 10:13 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There has to be a 24 MP APS-c just around the corner, there just has to... unless it was like a 28 or a 30 or something like that.
I agree. Sony has a 20 MP APS-C (A3000) to go along with the 24 MP. The latter gets to Nikon's level if the MP race is still on, but the former is at Canon's same price point.

The arbitrator may be wi-fi which would be 15-20% more efficient at 20MP. However it gets awkward for Pentax if the lowest end Sony has the same sensor as the highest end Pentax.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 09-13-2013 at 10:20 AM.
09-13-2013, 10:18 AM   #321
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Well, this means that Pentax will finally have a fast 35 again, fast 50s (several of them), fast 77, etc.

The gaping hole in Pentax's lineup is anything resembling a fast 35mm equivalent on APSc. It's rather frustrating and I'm sure Pentax is losing sales due to it. It touts itself as having small bodies, but it's just too easy to go elsewhere for one.

Should Pentax finally have some vision, I have 24, 35, 50, and 85 FF lenses.
09-14-2013, 04:11 AM   #322
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I have owned Nikon D700 now 2 months. I decided to go for it as I could find very low shutter count unit for very good price. I used Canon 5D with some PK lenses before and really liked the "FF look", especially the fast 35mm, in some situations. I have to say that there is no going back for me. My fast 35mm on D700 is the inexpensive 35mm/1.8. It vignettes quite heavily on D700 but is more than usable in my use, especially after Lightroom lens corrections. Also the cheap 24-120mm/3.5-5.6 VR is excellent, easily comparable to DA*16-50/2.8 in sharpness. Also Samyang 14mm/2.8 is just brilliant.

I have always kept the K-5 quality good enough (and it really is) but that pixel level sharpness and the amount of details D700 12MP sensor brought "blew me away". Now pictures taken with K-5 look a bit soft. I shouldn't have bought it. And even though the K-5 is never camera, after using the D700 it feels dated (believe or not). Maybe because of the better autofocusing system, better viewfinder and better manual lens implementation on D700 (you can set non-CPU lens data and see proper F-stop in viewfinder, get proper exif data and see the manual focus aid in viewfinder (which way to turn focus ring etc.)). I also got Sigma 150-500 DG OS HSM on Nikon mount as I could get it couple hundred euros cheaper on Nikon mount than on Pentax mount on used market.

I have already sold some of my Pentax lenses (Sigma 28mm/1.8, Samyang 35/14, Samyang 85mm/1.4) to fund that other system. I will most likely sell DA*16-50/2.8 and maybe some other zooms also. I have never really thought about it before but Pentax is losing appeal in my eyes. I have never bought the newest and "best" but the one which is best bang for the buck in my use (at the time). And now I tend to leave K-5 home most of the time when I go shooting. So, I guess the FF would be "holy grail" for me after all. The photography hobbyist's "holy grail" is the gear he likes to use after all. I have event to shoot next weekend and I will take only my Nikon gear and leave Pentax home.

The only lenses that keep me using Pentax at the moment are DA18-135WR and A*300/4 (and Sigma 50-150/2.8 but this can be had for other mounts also). There is still weight and size advantage on some situations. I was surprised how little I have actually missed the IBIS. But it has been summer and there is plenty of light. The situation changes when winter comes and light fades.
09-14-2013, 05:22 AM   #323
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I have to admit that I'm also looking for a D700. Kinder file sizing, fullframe, real, fast 24s available, can get a fast 35 (unlike Pentax APSc), and so on. Not totally sure about the high ISO capability and shadow recovery compared to the K-5, nor the DR, but still, it's a winner...

09-14-2013, 08:48 AM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I have to admit that I'm also looking for a D700. Kinder file sizing, fullframe, real, fast 24s available, can get a fast 35 (unlike Pentax APSc), and so on. Not totally sure about the high ISO capability and shadow recovery compared to the K-5, nor the DR, but still, it's a winner...
DR is not as good as K-5 as the sensor is older tech but it's surprisingly close. Shadow recovery is pretty good also. Also the colors after shadow recovery seem better to me on D700 than on K-5. Here is one example, not the best sample but you get the idea (it was shot ISO 500, ISO 200 would have given better result of course). Very difficult situation as the sky was still blown out even the foreground was heavily underexposed. First one is original, second one is pushed +0,50 EV and shadows pushed +100 in Lightroom 4 (click for full size image):



High ISO seem to be pretty similar also but it seems that D700 keeps the detail better at higher ISO's. ISO 3200 on D700 is still excellent and 6400 very good.
09-14-2013, 10:14 AM   #325
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I wrestled with a D700.

IMO it should have come with a Sherpa.
09-14-2013, 03:01 PM   #326
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I was looking at a local retailer's web site yesterday (JBHiFi) who are having a '15% off digital cameras' sale.

While the cheapest I can buy a K-5IIs locally is about $1150 (after CRK's current '10% off' sale), JBHifi had a Canon 6D for $1780 and a Nikon D600 for $1859. Not grey imports either...

Whatever Pentax are planning to do about FF, they better move soon. The price gap between FF and APS-C is narrowing, and it gets harder to see the value proposition in even a fine camera like the K-5 IIs if I can get a great new FF for only about $600 more.
09-14-2013, 05:41 PM   #327
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I was looking at a local retailer's web site yesterday (JBHiFi) who are having a '15% off digital cameras' sale.

While the cheapest I can buy a K-5IIs locally is about $1150 (after CRK's current '10% off' sale), JBHifi had a Canon 6D for $1780 and a Nikon D600 for $1859. Not grey imports either...

Whatever Pentax are planning to do about FF, they better move soon. The price gap between FF and APS-C is narrowing, and it gets harder to see the value proposition in even a fine camera like the K-5 IIs if I can get a great new FF for only about $600 more.
The Canon 7D sells for $1,500 and the 6D $1,780.... There is room for a "pro grade" DSLR at $1,500 and a consumer grade FF at $1,800.

2013 August

Rumored Specs of the 7DII.


~24MP sensor with Dual Pixel CMOS AF
Auto-Focus system similar to the EOS 5D Mark III (61 points)
High frame rate, 10-12 fps
“high grade” weather sealing, like Canon’s professional DSLRs
Dual Digic V+ processor
Single card slot
WiFi & GPS
Innovative video features
Price around $2000
Very good ISO performance
09-14-2013, 06:08 PM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpyykonen Quote
DR is not as good as K-5 as the sensor is older tech but it's surprisingly close. Shadow recovery is pretty good also. Also the colors after shadow recovery seem better to me on D700 than on K-5. Here is one example, not the best sample but you get the idea (it was shot ISO 500, ISO 200 would have given better result of course).
You wouldn't have gotten better DR results from the K-5 there. K5 has more DR at base ISO, up to about ISO 200 when they about even out, and D700 pulls ahead by ISO 400. Regarding noise, the D700 has about a stop on the K-5.

.
09-14-2013, 06:10 PM   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I wrestled with a D700.

IMO it should have come with a Sherpa.
I thought you also shot medium format film? (Or am I thinking of someone else?)

The little D700 shouldn't be a problem.
09-14-2013, 06:15 PM   #330
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The lens roadmap should have begun two years ago

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
While the cheapest I can buy a K-5IIs locally is about $1150 (after CRK's current '10% off' sale), JBHifi had a Canon 6D for $1780 and a Nikon D600 for $1859. Not grey imports either...

Whatever Pentax are planning to do about FF, they better move soon. The price gap between FF and APS-C is narrowing, and it gets harder to see the value proposition in even a fine camera like the K-5 IIs if I can get a great new FF for only about $600 more.
Another thing to watch - lower-end aps-c DSLR sales in light of 2014 and 2015 MILC and fixed-lens-large-sensor mirrorless offerings. Welcome to the squeeze.
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