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06-13-2013, 07:11 AM   #31
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Do current FA lenses cover enough image circle for FF + IBIS? Maybe they just can't figure out a way to deal with it that won't piss off fans too much...

06-13-2013, 10:36 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What I find incredible is that Pentaxforums didn't retract that statement ("our conclusion is that the DA 560mm lens cannot be labeled as a full-frame lens"), even if clear evidence was presented. Is it that difficult to admit you made a mistake and fix it? All it takes is to edit a webpage.

When Pentax will finally launch their FF camera (they admitted working on it, right?) we'll need accurate information about current lenses' FF compatibility.


They don't need to retract it. I'm not going to argue on the basis of what other people want to believe or how much lenses from other manufacturers of 135 format cameras vignette (at wider apertures at that).

How about this, it's labeled a DA lens. DA lenses are for APS-C. It would be complete confusion for consumers if only some DA lenses were good for this supposed 135 K mount. I sure can't keep it straight. All we have are a few film shots that show how much the lenses vignette on film, when vignetting is only one issue -- as film reacts differently to light than silicon does. Pentax has even stated in the past, their FA lenses really don't perform well on 135 format digital. None of the DA line should be confused with 135 format lenses.


Further still, we know Pentax has a designation for 135 digital format, and they've used it recently.

There are only 3 lenses sold today that both cover 135 format and play nice with sensors. That just does not point to a 135 K mount IMHO.
06-13-2013, 12:14 PM   #33
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Those lenses are vignetting wide-open, and improve when stopping down - same for the 560mm. You're saying we should use different, more restrictive standards for Pentax; why?

DA lenses will have to be tested on a FF DSLR, but I'm sure some of them will play nicely. However, Pentaxforums didn't rely on the 560mm's DA designation; but tried to determine - to test - its FF compatibility; and failed.
You are free to complain that they considered making such test, and ask for all "DA lenses on FF" threads to be closed. I doubt you'll get any result, though...
06-13-2013, 12:40 PM   #34
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QuoteQuote:
Theory why FF taking so long
Maybe they are watching at Sony who can't sell his A99 at $2500 despite having a larger market share. And maybe they are seeing that they'll have to compete against a 6D at $1499 and that just wouldn't be sustainable and profitable.

Canon 6D Full Frame price drops down to $1499. How can Sony compete against this? | sonyalpharumors

06-13-2013, 01:03 PM   #35
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I have no specific knowledge but I wonder whether Pentax even has manufacturing capacity to add a FF K-mount camera. I'd bet a significant part of the reason K-01 was killed had to do with production planning for K-50 and K-500.

When something like Q becomes Q10 and then Q7 - i.e. a success - a company can literally be prevented from making a different new product due to capacity constraints.

The cost of building a new production facility (or adding a new production line) versus using existing capacity can negatively alter the new product economics.
06-13-2013, 02:16 PM   #36
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It is taking so long because Pentax has 3-4 FF cameras all ready to come out, they're just waiting for Film to come back into style.
06-13-2013, 03:31 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have no specific knowledge but I wonder whether Pentax even has manufacturing capacity to add a FF K-mount camera. I'd bet a significant part of the reason K-01 was killed had to do with production planning for K-50 and K-500.

When something like Q becomes Q10 and then Q7 - i.e. a success - a company can literally be prevented from making a different new product due to capacity constraints.

The cost of building a new production facility (or adding a new production line) versus using existing capacity can negatively alter the new product economics.
I understand your concern, but how much extra capacity would be needed? 5-10%? Since Pentax wants to expand their sales/market share, they must be planning to increase their production capacity anyway.
Both K-50 and Q7 have an initial monthly production volume of 20000 pcs, plus the K-500 - maybe they did it already?
06-13-2013, 04:21 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I understand your concern, but how much extra capacity would be needed? 5-10%? Since Pentax wants to expand their sales/market share, they must be planning to increase their production capacity anyway.
Both K-50 and Q7 have an initial monthly production volume of 20000 pcs, plus the K-500 - maybe they did it already?
K-01 production reportedly ended September, 2012 ......

I think there's a bit more to it than setting up a few new assembly tables in a flat building in Vietnam.

06-13-2013, 04:30 PM   #39
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It's not just the camera but also the lenses.
So with an FF you've 1 maybe 2 camera's and to start with 4 to 6 lens lines?

In all honesty i rather have them use those resources for new APS-C, 645 and Q lenses...
06-13-2013, 04:44 PM   #40
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And they are probably working on a 645DII too!
06-13-2013, 05:58 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think there's a bit more to it than setting up a few new assembly tables in a flat building in Vietnam.
Well, they have assembly operations (inc 'partners') in the Philippines, Vietnam, China and Indonesia. Maybe some bits in Japan too. And who knows what else Ricoh may have available - they have a much larger manufacturing operation than Hoya ever had with all their office equipment plants. I think Ricoh has a LOT of production line engineering experience to bring to bear on any Pentax manufacturing issues, if they need to.
06-13-2013, 07:21 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
...And maybe they are seeing that they'll have to compete against a 6D at $1499 and that just wouldn't be sustainable and profitable.
I think the point is; how are they going to sell large volumes of aps-c DSLRs at $1200 a pop ever again?

.
06-13-2013, 07:38 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I think the point is; how are they going to sell large volumes of aps-c DSLRs at $1200 a pop ever again?

.
Because size isn't everything...
06-13-2013, 11:43 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
K-01 production reportedly ended September, 2012 ......

I think there's a bit more to it than setting up a few new assembly tables in a flat building in Vietnam.
Never said it's a trivial matter. But I'm not sure what's the point?
We know Pentax is planning to increase their market share, which means more production capacity (than what they were using in the Hoya days). We know Ricoh can help, and probably did (see https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/227779-pentax-k-500-k-...ml#post2418427). They should be able to go for the extra 5%, because if they can't it means they would reach a production capacity wall, and won't be able to grow further. I doubt that would be a likely scenario.
06-14-2013, 12:32 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That Canon and Nikon long lenses (500, 600mm f/4 - but not only those) vignettes as well, in the extreme corners. Take a look at the "Why there might NOT be a FF" thread, from post #108 (last page or so), so you won't have to go to the article and read the comments.

Yes, they told you that and you believed them; bad idea. Always double and triple-check.
Ah yes, I remember. I agree that it is completely wrong to use a double standard. You can't say the 560 doesn't support FF and the others do, while they vignette the same.

That said... Pentax themselved deemed the 560mm as DA, not as DFA. There may be some tactic behind that, not to raise hopes of the restless FF-demanding userbase, or they may really be convinced it's APS-C only.
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