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06-14-2013, 12:08 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Supposedly (confirmed by Jim Malcolm) both Canon and Nikon have maintained production schedules in the face of front end sales declines - and thus have experienced an unintentional inventory build. Pentax has avoided this, which is good for the company. However, should there be a Canikon FF price drop to liquidate involuntary inventory that would not be good for the eventual introduction of a Pentax FF.

Just sayin'.
My local says sales have slowed. But he also says mirrorless has slowed more.

New model churn due to digital advances will continue regardless. Therefore it's mostly about price and volume now.

One of the problems a Pentax FF faces is a lot of semi-used FF Nikons and Canon's on the market. They come with more glass options, and many have been seldom used. It can be hard to compete against eBay and fredmiranda.

Any drop ins FF pricing for new product would be permanent, and strategic. Good for Pentax in the long term, lousy to get a competing product out the door. And it's very difficult to innovate a DSLR now.

06-14-2013, 08:32 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The entire MF digital segment is probably under 8,000 units/year:

How Leica Camera Is Reinventing The Medium-Format Market On Its Own Terms - Forbes

Do the math and the 645D series makes paltry revenues. I know a local drycleaner chain that makes more.
I think you missed my point, which was in response to the person who said MF sells less than FF so it doesn't make sense for Pentax to offer the 645D and not FF.

Pentax offered a lower priced MF because they could and no-one else did. My point was that they could get in easier because there's less competition in that segment than in FF.

When Pentax comes out with the FF, it will also produce paltry revenues until they are able to rebuild the brand reputation and distribution.
06-15-2013, 10:21 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
Was inherently FF. Was. The super telephoto 560mm DA's vignetting on 135 format is yet another indication the K-Mount is exclusively an APS-C system.

That's why I kinda think that rumor of a new mount and new lens line for the 135 format might be true. It'd give Pentax a chance to throw off all the legacy baggage and attract people who aren't interested in used glass that makes them no money.
Wouldn't that also give those with an investment in K-mount lenses already an incentive to say "Right, so if I can't use my existing glass, let's see what Canikonypus can offer", and so end up causing Pentax to sell fewer expensive FF bodies?
06-15-2013, 10:54 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Wouldn't that also give those with an investment in K-mount lenses already an incentive to say "Right, so if I can't use my existing glass, let's see what Canikonypus can offer", and so end up causing Pentax to sell fewer expensive FF bodies?
That would be me. I prefer manual focus lenses anyway, so if I'd need to buy new for Pentax I'd jump to a D600 and buy old Nikon glass.

06-15-2013, 11:29 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Wouldn't that also give those with an investment in K-mount lenses already an incentive to say "Right, so if I can't use my existing glass, let's see what Canikonypus can offer", and so end up causing Pentax to sell fewer expensive FF bodies?

QuoteOriginally posted by TomB_tx Quote
That would be me. I prefer manual focus lenses anyway, so if I'd need to buy new for Pentax I'd jump to a D600 and buy old Nikon glass.
A conspiracy theorist would call the K for Q Adapter Social Engineering.
06-15-2013, 08:30 PM   #81
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One reason might be because they have so many full frame lenses in circulation that very few people would go out and bother buying any new lenses they'd make. The current used FF lenses would probably double in price like they did when the K10D came out and Pentax wont see any of those funds. Maybe they will get over this by releasing it in a Ricoh proprietary mount or something?
06-16-2013, 02:34 AM   #82
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You're underestimating the Pentax userbase, and overestimating the second hand market All it takes is for Pentax to make new lenses available.

Pentax won't go for a new mount just like this; it can't work, as the effect would be:
a. to make it much less desirable to Pentaxians (actually I'd say it would generate negative reactions, making people jump ship)
b. to go from adding up to the K-mount system (still difficult but IMO doable) to launching a new system (a huge task - starting with no lenses, no userbase and customers which no longer trust the company).
Please don't spread FUD. K-mount is here to stay.
06-16-2013, 03:18 AM   #83
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The good used glass is already really expensive. I've seen banged up copies of the FA *85 going for over a thousand dollars. I don't see any way the older, manual focus lenses will significantly effect the market for new, auto focus lenses. I would imagine that if there were new versions of the FA *85, FA * 80-200, the used versions would actually drop in price -- I feel like they are pretty over valued as it is.

06-16-2013, 09:10 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You're underestimating the Pentax userbase, and overestimating the second hand market All it takes is for Pentax to make new lenses available.

Pentax won't go for a new mount just like this; it can't work, as the effect would be:
a. to make it much less desirable to Pentaxians (actually I'd say it would generate negative reactions, making people jump ship)
b. to go from adding up to the K-mount system (still difficult but IMO doable) to launching a new system (a huge task - starting with no lenses, no userbase and customers which no longer trust the company).
Please don't spread FUD. K-mount is here to stay.
Who says that FF will be a DSLR?
Pentax always said they will do something special if they make one, they might go mirrorless...
06-16-2013, 09:12 AM   #85
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Here we go again... Pentax did; search back those interviews. And FYI, mirrorless are nothing special.
06-16-2013, 10:19 AM   #86
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I can't remeber an interview where pentax have said that they are making a FF dslr but you seem to know one, can you point me to it?

FYI, there are no mirrorless FF cameras... so if pentax make one it's something that others have done.
There are rumours Sony will introduce one in next year.
06-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #87
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Actually Pentax is waiting until

a) everybody who NEEDS a FF camera,
b) everybody who WANTS a FF camera and
c) everybody who does not need nor want but buys one accidentally nevertheless

have bought into another brand, and then they'll release one. Pink.

Last edited by Raffwal; 06-16-2013 at 11:16 AM.
06-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #88
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Mister Kitazawa himself said they even would like to have a mirrorless 645:
QuoteQuote:
北沢 645 ですが、そのうちミラーレスを作りたいですね。 理由は一眼レフのミラーショックです。この微振動ってかなり画質に影響しているんです。 将来的にはフルサイズや645でミラーレス化をねらいたいなと思います。
Kitazawa: Well, regarding the 645, sooner or later we will want to make it into a mirrorless. The reason is the mirror shock inherent to SLRs. Those very tiny vibrations do have an effect on the final image. I think in the future I would like to pursue mirrorless full-frame and 645 cameras.
He said it in this interview/thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/168982-translation-ki...interview.html

He also said, in that same interview, that if Pentax would go FF, mirrorless would be the path to victory:
QuoteQuote:
ー それはウソです(笑)。ペンタックスがフルサイズで勝負をするなら、一眼レフじゃなくてミラーレスで勝負したほうが勝ち目はある。 ミラーレスのフルサイズっていうのはいまのところはライかだけ。それをペンタックスの技術でフルサイズを出すってことは期待大ですね。
-- Now that's a lie (laughter). If Pentax is to enter the full frame battle, it looks like the path to victory will be with mirrorless rather than SLR. Right now Leica is the only one offering a full-frame mirrorless camera. There's a big expectation that Pentax will use its efforts to release a camera in that space.
Yes, it's an old thread. But this means that they will go mirrorless as soon as they can. Until the technology is ripe, they're just killing time.

Last edited by Clavius; 06-16-2013 at 10:56 AM.
06-16-2013, 11:07 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
...
FYI, there are no mirrorless FF cameras...
I'm sure you'd get plenty of arguments about that from M9 owners. What are your thoughts on the Sony RX1 then?
06-16-2013, 12:42 PM - 1 Like   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Mister Kitazawa himself said they even would like to have a mirrorless 645:
He said it in this interview/thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/168982-translation-ki...interview.html

He also said, in that same interview, that if Pentax would go FF, mirrorless would be the path to victory:
Yes, it's an old thread. But this means that they will go mirrorless as soon as they can. Until the technology is ripe, they're just killing time.
It's the opposite, actually. I read all the interview, listened to people's opinions (those who know Japanese) - the possibility of being wrong is quite slim, and I can't be persuaded by small quotes taken out of context.

The interviewer was trying hard to push the discussion towards mirrorless; this is the reason Kitazawa-san talked so much about it. The second quote actually is the interviewer's - it's funny how you think of it as an argument.
Kitazawa-san is even joking, that the interviewer made them a product roadmap.

One occasion in which Kitazawa-san says no FF mirrorless (for now):
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/201538-dc-watch-inter...velopment.html
"Even though there was possibility to bring FF into this segment, it was our conclusion that APS-C should be the utmost size for mirrorless segment."
"First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production"
Those translated quotes belongs to Kitazawa-san, not to a third-party. You could ask lensroar if he's confident in his translation, if you wish.
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