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06-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's the opposite, actually. I read all the interview, listened to people's opinions (those who know Japanese) - the possibility of being wrong is quite slim, and I can't be persuaded by small quotes taken out of context.
I'm not trying to persuade you.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The interviewer was trying hard to push the discussion towards mirrorless; this is the reason Kitazawa-san talked so much about it. The second quote actually is the interviewer's - it's funny how you think of it as an argument.
Kitazawa-san is even joking, that the interviewer made them a product roadmap.

One occasion in which Kitazawa-san says no FF mirrorless (for now):
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/201538-dc-watch-inter...velopment.html
"Even though there was possibility to bring FF into this segment, it was our conclusion that APS-C should be the utmost size for mirrorless segment."
"First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production"
Those translated quotes belongs to Kitazawa-san, not to a third-party. You could ask lensroar if he's confident in his translation, if you wish.
lol, I don't need lensroar for that.

06-16-2013, 03:56 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Wouldn't that also give those with an investment in K-mount lenses already an incentive to say "Right, so if I can't use my existing glass, let's see what Canikonypus can offer", and so end up causing Pentax to sell fewer expensive FF bodies?

I'd have thought 13 years since the demise of the MZ-D would be incentive enough.
06-16-2013, 05:41 PM   #93
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Unless James Malcolm outright lied to me and 7 other PentaxForums members on the telephone April 30, 2013 (when without prompting he discussed the future of Pentax mounts), "Pentax is committed to Q, K-mount and 645."

Then again, (cynically parsing) that doesn't preclude being committed to K-mount as their APSc mount and designing a 4th mount dedicated to FF.

Ducking
06-16-2013, 10:59 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kaimarx Quote
One reason might be because they have so many full frame lenses in circulation that very few people would go out and bother buying any new lenses they'd make. The current used FF lenses would probably double in price like they did when the K10D came out and Pentax wont see any of those funds.
This is good in theory but in reality the price of good used glass is already crazy. Many lenses have seen the price double or even triple from only a few years ago when it was not certain Pentax was even going to survive. The release of the k-x brought about a dramatic increase in both k-mount and m-42 legacy glass prices.

The used market will continue but I do not think it will have any significant impact on the sale of new glass. If you don't want to pay Pentax new price you already have less expensive choices from Samyang and Sigma.


Last edited by jatrax; 06-17-2013 at 08:10 AM.
06-17-2013, 05:39 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Unless James Malcolm outright lied to me and 7 other PentaxForums members on the telephone April 30, 2013 (when without prompting he discussed the future of Pentax mounts), "Pentax is committed to Q, K-mount and 645."

Then again, (cynically parsing) that doesn't preclude being committed to K-mount as their APSc mount and designing a 4th mount dedicated to FF.

Ducking
I wonder: would it be possible to produce a mirrorless 645D mk 2 which is little if any larger than a D800 or 5D mk 3, say? And with a sensor which blows absolutely any current FF camera clean out of the liquid? Plus rangefinder-style hybrid OVF with focus-peaking overlay?

Unless Mr Malcolm was misinformed, in the sense that he was passing on inaccurate information from HQ Japan which he had every reason to believe was actually true, then it's hard to find a way round what he said. Either FF, if it is ever launched, will use K-mount lenses or it will use a new mount entirely with, presumably, an adapter for K-mount lenses. That's assuming it is ILC FF. If a fixed mount like the RX1, then anything is possible.

I suppose an alternative is that FF is not coming because Pentax Ricoh have found some magic in a remote yogin's cave which allows a dramatic increase in APS-C performance. So, when you want a high-res landscape, for example, you can set the camera to combine three shots in one using sensor-shift per pixel, yielding a RAW file of 2-3 times the sensor resolution; and when you don't need that, you simply switch back to single shot. It could be run off a setting similar to the bracketing settings already on a K5. However, pulling this off would need massive camera electronics which wouldn't be cheap or nice to batteries, I'd guess.
06-17-2013, 06:04 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I suppose an alternative is that FF is not coming because Pentax Ricoh have found some magic in a remote yogin's cave which allows a dramatic increase in APS-C performance.
The thing is APS-C lags about 1 generation behind FF.

There is a different between having the best and have something that's more then good enough.
APS-C has reached a point 2 years ago with the K5 that almost any argument about resolution, quality and ISO made it a mute point to go for FF unless you've special needs.
06-17-2013, 06:17 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by NotaxPen Quote
When Pentax comes out with the FF, it will also produce paltry revenues until they are able to rebuild the brand reputation and distribution.
Price.

FF will only work if the price point is low enough.

Pentax cannot compete on a traditional (D)SLR format with Canikon. There are not enough lenses etc.

It's not a brand identity problem nor a distribution issue. FF development entirely rests on how many units will sell and that will be determined by the MSRP of the camera body.
06-17-2013, 08:31 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
FF development entirely rests on how many units will sell and that will be determined by the MSRP of the camera body.
Didn't seem to work that way for Sony.

06-17-2013, 09:58 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
Didn't seem to work that way for Sony.
And that's why they stopped all FF for over a year.

And given Sony's constant red ink one has to wonder if the imaging division has a long-term future (and why the RX-1 is priced at $2,700).
06-17-2013, 10:58 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
And that's why they stopped all FF for over a year.

And given Sony's constant red ink one has to wonder if the imaging division has a long-term future (and why the RX-1 is priced at $2,700).
Exactly - MSRP is not the only factor which determines number of units sold.
06-17-2013, 12:57 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Who says that FF will be a DSLR?
Pentax always said they will do something special if they make one, they might go mirrorless...
I'd guess they'd go interchangeable viewfinder before they'd go mirrorless, but maybe that's just me hoping.
06-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
And that's why they stopped all FF for over a year.

And given Sony's constant red ink one has to wonder if the imaging division has a long-term future (and why the RX-1 is priced at $2,700).
Is the A99, RX1 and NEX-VG900 not using FF sensors ? How much you want to bet Sony will still be selling cameras ten years from today ? BTW Sony made $458 million profit last year.
06-17-2013, 01:08 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I'd guess they'd go interchangeable viewfinder before they'd go mirrorless, but maybe that's just me hoping.
Like with the pentax 6x7 camera?
06-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Is the A99, RX1 and NEX-VG900 not using FF sensors ? How much you want to bet Sony will still be selling cameras ten years from today ? BTW Sony made $458 million profit last year.
Actually they lost money after taxes, and the camera division blows. Probably they won't be making cameras in 10 years, if they are still around as a hardware vendor...

Sony’s earnings no longer look terrible — still expects $1.4B profit for fiscal 2012 | VentureBeat
06-17-2013, 01:40 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Like with the pentax 6x7 camera?
Interesting you mention that since Pentax do have the Pentax 67 system in storage, so to speak. I wonder whether it would be feasible to dust it off for digital. Certainly original Pentax 67s were v pop at one stage as the ultimate retro analogue cam and still receive rave reviews (see Luminous Landscape). They are far, far from forgotten, I'd guess. And one usually quite well-informed source on dipreview has talked about " a very,very big thing" this fall/autumn.

I don't know much about this, but if Ricoh wanted to make waves among professionals, perhaps they might think it's easier to make a move on Hasselblad, Phase One et al rather than lose their shirt trying to break the Canonikon stranglehold on professional DSLR FF and its huge base of lenses? But maybe this is all bollocks. Someone might know.
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