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08-15-2013, 09:54 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
ON the other hand
DA 15 > there's no FF 20mm prime with equivalent performance. Nikon's 20mm is a POS. Voigt 20mm has mixed review and no AF
DA 40 > no bodycap style lens
DA 10-17 > No reasonably prized zoom fisheye

I could go on, but both systems have its advantages :x
You can buy the Tokina version of the 10-17 fisheye for Nikon, but it's about $80 more. It's the same lens as the Pentax, however, it would have to be used in DX mode.

08-15-2013, 10:23 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
You can buy the Tokina version of the 10-17 fisheye for Nikon, but it's about $80 more. It's the same lens as the Pentax, however, it would have to be used in DX mode.
Like some people used to say here, the Tokina is DA 10-17 dressed in drag I have a personal attachment to my DA 10-17, as I actually consider it a true modern takumar. It's perhaps my second favourite lens in the whole pentax lineup

You're right though, I guess I could live with the 10 MP DX mode, and enjoy the cropped fisheye view as well , dont need to insist on using an FF lens
08-15-2013, 10:30 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Like some people used to say here, the Tokina is DA 10-17 dressed in drag I have a personal attachment to my DA 10-17, as I actually consider it a true modern takumar. It's perhaps my second favourite lens in the whole pentax lineup

You're right though, I guess I could live with the 10 MP DX mode, and enjoy the cropped fisheye view as well , dont need to insist on using an FF lens
It's a much more tempting buy for D800 shooters, to be sure. Samyang's 8mm now comes with a removable hood. I believe it is full frame without the hood.
08-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
It's a much more tempting buy for D800 shooters, to be sure. Samyang's 8mm now comes with a removable hood. I believe it is full frame without the hood.
Will look into that, it sounds really cool Thanks for the heads up

08-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Will look into that, it sounds really cool Thanks for the heads up
Never mind, still APS-C, but you can now get a full circle image without the filter in the way. I was given bad information before.
08-15-2013, 03:52 PM   #81
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Good luck with your D600! As for me, I'll just wait for a FF Pentax, a pink & green one I'd say it's not going to happen, no matter how much i wish for. I'm pretty sick of waiting for their flasgun lineup refresh, let alone that primitive PTTL system.
08-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I jumped from k20/kx to d600 and I must say initially I had the same reactions as OP. The d600 does not feel anywhere as nice as k10/k20, and is not a 'joy to shoot' like I had felt since K100d


Like OP said, the ISO button placement is godawful. This is balanced by the amazing autoISO (it actually works!!) and "easy iso" mode, but you forgo "easy exposure compensation" by doing that. I much prefer the Pentax solution, but the autoISO doesnt work nearly as well, so it's kind of a wash.


Andi, just want to point out that the auto ISO works well as of K5/Kx.
I'd agree that it wasn't very useful pre K5 as the high ISO performance wasn't good enough.

Pretty fair analysis overall and to me, there are pros and cos using either (any) system.
08-15-2013, 08:40 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I jumped from k20/kx to d600 and I must say initially I had the same reactions as OP. The d600 does not feel anywhere as nice as k10/k20, and is not a 'joy to shoot' like I had felt since K100d

However the d600 is really a killer camera, and the results you can obtain from FF (or just the nikon system) is simply not possible with current pentax gear. The camera is growing fast on me, (three customizable buttons + two user modes!!) but it's not a love at first sight like Pentax is.

Like OP said, the ISO button placement is godawful. This is balanced by the amazing autoISO (it actually works!!) and "easy iso" mode, but you forgo "easy exposure compensation" by doing that. I much prefer the Pentax solution, but the autoISO doesnt work nearly as well, so it's kind of a wash.

That said though, having jumped to the neighbor's lawn, like the OP I realize now that often we take many things pentax has for granted, like SR, SMC coating, and our reasonably sized, yet amazing primes, especially in the lower focal lengths. All the Nikon options under 24mm are either huge and expensive, or does not perform very well.

I'm happy to have jumped to FF / nikon system and I think it really is the right move for me, but I empathize with the OP as I really miss all the good things about pentax.

By the way, glass in nikon FF land is not super expensive as long as you're not talking first party wide angle. In whenever you can forgo SR, you gain around 1 stop of dof control. The amazing high ISO performance kind of makes up for the lack of SR, so imho it's a wash, again.

APSC vs FF:
FA 35 ($300) vs AF-S 50/1.8 ($300)
Tamron 17-50 ($350) vs Tamron 28-75 ($300)
FA 50 ($250) vs AF-D 85/1.8 ($300)
DA 55-300 ($300) vs Nikon 70-300 ($350)
DA 17-70 ($400) vs AF-S 24-85 VR ($400)
DA 21 (400) vs Nikon 35/2 ($250)
Good overview, Andi, except for this:

QuoteQuote:
ON the other hand
DA 15 > there's no FF 20mm prime with equivalent performance. Nikon's 20mm is a POS.
Nikon's 20mm f/2.8D is actually very nice on FF, and stands up to the DA 15ltd well except for flare control, where the DA 15ltd is fantastic.

But I highly recommend the Nikon 20mm f/2.8D on FF - it's small, inexpensive, and is the equivalent of a sharp 13mm f/1.8 on aps-c - a sweet little lens to carry with you.

Taken yesterday with the Nikon 20:





08-16-2013, 01:03 AM   #84
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Well I Always love those wide angle shots, I just don't have the kowledge to make them myself (this interesting).
08-16-2013, 06:31 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Never mind, still APS-C, but you can now get a full circle image without the filter in the way. I was given bad information before.
Looking around for this lens did remind me of the Sigma 8mm I sued to have though, I might opt for that one instead I will probably get the Tokina first as per your suggestion. I'm picking up a d90 as a backup body so it will be nice to use the Tokina on that. Rather dated now but it's really a k-x in Nikon skin.

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Andi, just want to point out that the auto ISO works well as of K5/Kx.
I'd agree that it wasn't very useful pre K5 as the high ISO performance wasn't good enough.
You're right, I do find that K-x Auto ISO does a decent job, but d600 makes it much more useful, together with manual mode (TAV) + AF tracking + high ISO. Metering is also better which means that there's less playing with exposure compensation in general, which I find I have to do very often in pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Good overview, Andi, except for this:

Nikon's 20mm f/2.8D is actually very nice on FF, and stands up to the DA 15ltd well except for flare control, where the DA 15ltd is fantastic.

But I highly recommend the Nikon 20mm f/2.8D on FF - it's small, inexpensive, and is the equivalent of a sharp 13mm f/1.8 on aps-c - a sweet little lens to carry with you.

Taken yesterday with the Nikon 20:
DA 15 is one of the most impressive lenses designed in recent years imo, and again Pentax users often take SMC for granted. I think SMC really means anti-flare fairies in some language.

You know Jay, I feel sometimes with you behind the camera, you're giving any lens an unfair advantage

But you've revived my interest in the AF-D 20mm, I will give it a second look Reviews online are very mixed, so perhaps there's a lot of bad copies floating around? I'll get some samples before i buy for sure.

Last edited by Andi Lo; 08-16-2013 at 07:05 AM.
08-17-2013, 08:16 PM   #86
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Andi Lo, the Sigma 24/2.8 might be a fun wide-ish prime to try on your D600. Unlike in Pentax land, the used ones go pretty cheap in Nikon land. I got my Quantary re-badge of the SIgma 24/2.8 for $60 at the local camera shop. I think, on the D600, it compares well to the DA15 on a K-5. Except for flare performance, of course.

Anyhow, the price is right.
08-17-2013, 09:52 PM   #87
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I am very interested in Pentax's FF ideas, however, reading this thread got me thinking, would it not be better if Pentax focused on their current MF offerings and improved it from there?. They have got themselves firmly established in the MF market, and I can only guess that there is more money to be made there, than bringing out a whole new range with FF.

Just my idea.

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08-18-2013, 07:44 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by SirBismuth Quote
I am very interested in Pentax's FF ideas, however, reading this thread got me thinking, would it not be better if Pentax focused on their current MF offerings and improved it from there?. They have got themselves firmly established in the MF market, and I can only guess that there is more money to be made there, than bringing out a whole new range with FF.
MF meaning medium format I guess. Well, the thing is that many people using APS-C Pentax cameras want an upgrade option. Upgrading to a K mount FF camera would allow them to use a lot of their gear, many lenses and most other stuff. While the 645D on the other hand is a completely different system. "Upgrade" from APS-C and you might be able to use your old camera strap and that's about it. And if everything has to be bought from scratch, they might as well switch brand.
08-19-2013, 04:53 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
MF meaning medium format I guess. Well, the thing is that many people using APS-C Pentax cameras want an upgrade option. Upgrading to a K mount FF camera would allow them to use a lot of their gear, many lenses and most other stuff. While the 645D on the other hand is a completely different system. "Upgrade" from APS-C and you might be able to use your old camera strap and that's about it. And if everything has to be bought from scratch, they might as well switch brand.
You do have a point. I only use APS-C, so am in the same boat there...

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