[LFLee]

I am hoping for a deal this thanks giving for the D600/D610+ kit lens combo like they offered last year.
then build it around the primes I use most, 85mm, and a fast wide angle prime. That should give me enough to see if I really want to switch.

But .... there are too many sentimental values attach to PENTAX.... that letting go is not easy.

[lesmore49]

I don't know if I would switch to FF Canon or Nikon. I have the K-5, K10D and K-m bodies.

I have a wide variety of Pentax lenses, plus one Sigma (a 150-500)..

I also have Canon equipment and regularly frequent the Canon forum. I like the 5D2, 5D3 very much and to a lesser degree the 6D.

I take a lot of photos ...wildlife, vintage vehicles, etc. with my ASP-C equipment. I've been taking photos for over 45 years....decades ago...earned part of my living as a photographer for a magazine publishing company.

I find that careful use of F stops, shutter speeds, ISO, composition and lighting can make a significant difference to the end product...the photograph.

Too many times, IMO....some photographers believe that their end product the photograph could be better if only they had more expensive, 'better' equipment.

My view is that if you reach a certain photographic skill level .....then your skill is as important a factor....or perhaps more of a factor than the equipment. Whether you have a FF 5D2, 6D, Nikon D600....or....... a Canon 7D, Pentax K-5 , Nikon D300s to use as examples.

[hoanpham]

interesting prices.

I have mainly manual lenses and most of them can be used with a canon ff body, so i did got 5d and 5dm2. still cannot use pentax K lenses due to mirror issues on these, but that's ok.

The 5d classic can have used as low as 400usd. EE-S focus screen $40, AF confirm adapters ~20usd each, so less than $500 I have FF option.
The 5dm2 still expensive, ~$1500 low shutter count, and is a better choice when using pentax glasses due to live view. Still not the same as a pentax FF.

Manual glasses can be cheap or expensive, but I still keep the pentax bodies to use AF lenses, don't have to sell all my pentax gear.
The Takumars become better lenses on FF. Fast lenses have shallower DOF. The wide angles become truly wide. The K 28/3.5 Shift becomes awesome. Then I become less picky about lens choice: not only pentax but also zuiko om, nikkor ai/ais, exakta, topcor, and zeiss c/y...

So be warned...

[Nesster]

I find that careful use of F stops, shutter speeds, ISO, composition and lighting can make a significant difference to the end product...the photograph.

Too many times, IMO....some photographers believe that their end product the photograph could be better if only they had more expensive, 'better' equipment.

My view is that if you reach a certain photographic skill level .....then your skill is as important a factor....or perhaps more of a factor than the equipment. Whether you have a FF 5D2, 6D, Nikon D600....or....... a Canon 7D, Pentax K-5 , Nikon D300s to use as examples.

So very true. There is an aspect of spec/feature creep that all of us tend to fall prey to. We each have to evaluate for ourselves what is significant in practice vs not -- cameras and lenses have always gone way up in price the more specialized or extreme application ready they are. If I'm never going to shoot fisheye macro during a lunar eclipse in the rain and on a raft on a mountain stream, I don't need to pay for equipment that would let me do so.

To be honest, I haven't yet made really good photographs with the D600; and being used to digital APS I kind of miss it. But there are a few nice things about FF: the larger viewfinder is good for my aging eye, in practice I do like the high-ish ISO thing as it helps keep the shutter speed high (though the modern APS cameras aren't all that far behind, in real life, whatever the theory), and I can use my old wide angles as wide angles. Even so, I miss my Pentax when I'm out with the Nikon. In short, having a full frame digital camera has not brought me great excitement, fantastic photography, or allowed me to take pictures in situations where no other camera would do.

[tuco]

... then build it around the primes I use most ...

Perhaps consider starting out with a few D-primes. Smaller, more economical and they will give you more time and experience with the system to consider what lenses you'll want to save and pay big money for. I can't say if that's a more economical path in the long ( eg buying a focal length twice) but it gets you up and running.

[kenafein]

So very true. There is an aspect of spec/feature creep that all of us tend to fall prey to. We each have to evaluate for ourselves what is significant in practice vs not -- cameras and lenses have always gone way up in price the more specialized or extreme application ready they are. If I'm never going to shoot fisheye macro during a lunar eclipse in the rain and on a raft on a mountain stream, I don't need to pay for equipment that would let me do so.

To be honest, I haven't yet made really good photographs with the D600; and being used to digital APS I kind of miss it. But there are a few nice things about FF: the larger viewfinder is good for my aging eye, in practice I do like the high-ish ISO thing as it helps keep the shutter speed high (though the modern APS cameras aren't all that far behind, in real life, whatever the theory), and I can use my old wide angles as wide angles. Even so, I miss my Pentax when I'm out with the Nikon. In short, having a full frame digital camera has not brought me great excitement, fantastic photography, or allowed me to take pictures in situations where no other camera would do.

I feel pretty much the same about everything you said. My main reasons for getting the D600 were for the CLS and for wide angle(And for a few key lenses). It cost the same as a high end APS-C, so why not? I haven't noticed a huge difference in the files between my K-5, NEX 6 or my D600. I can't say that I didn't hope for some full frame magic, but I am still happy with it. I find that I rely on M mode more than I did with my NEX and K-5, because I really don't like its choices in S or A mode or with AUTO-ISO. I'll have to play with it more and get it dialed in.

[rawr]

In short, having a full frame digital camera has not brought me great excitement, fantastic photography, or allowed me to take pictures in situations where no other camera would do.

Good perspective.

I've been looking at the cheaper FF's (6D, D600), mainly for low-light concert gigs. But the biggest issue I found in reviewing the low-light images of mine that were duds over the last year was not so much noise or poor DR, but things like missed focus due to various camera, lens or other shooting inadequacies. I'm not sure FF itself would be a cure for this - probably I should just upgrade to a K-5 II.

However I have been impressed by the affordability of fast primes from both Canon and Nikon, including stuff like the Nikon and Canon 50 1.4's and 85 f1.8's, which certainly make building a budget FF kit for low-light not impossibly expensive.

[tuco]

Anyone coming from a K-5 level of camera to a D600 that does not notice a more responsive and confident push of the shutter button and increased nailed focus rate must surly have had a different experience than me. And apart from the lens FOV business, that is about what you'd be getting in general. Don't expect a huge change in you photography all of a sudden.

[ElJamoquio]

Good perspective.

I've been looking at the cheaper FF's (6D, D600), mainly for low-light concert gigs. But the biggest issue I found in reviewing the low-light images of mine that were duds over the last year was not so much noise or poor DR, but things like missed focus due to various camera, lens or other shooting inadequacies. I'm not sure FF itself would be a cure for this - probably I should just upgrade to a K-5 II.

However I have been impressed by the affordability of fast primes from both Canon and Nikon, including stuff like the Nikon and Canon 50 1.4's and 85 f1.8's, which certainly make building a budget FF kit for low-light not impossibly expensive.

With the same aperture lens, the FF should focus better, all else the same.

[kenafein]

increased nailed focus rate.

This is true. I guess it hasn't impressed me enough, in that regard, because I've really only been taking test shots and snaps, but it certainly does have a much improved AF.

[normhead]

So what I am to understand is, that none of the D600/D800 . Canon FF shooters notice the lack of in body shake reduction? Somehow I find this a little hard to comprehend. I recently started using a DP2 and the lack of shake reduction is simply inhibiting. Yet I see not even one mention of it in posts from people switching to Nikon/Canon systems. For many shots my SR is turned off because I'm shooting time delay on a tripod, but I'm shooting 1/10 second with my FA 50 1.8 and getting good results. Same with my DA 18-135, which is equivalent to 24 to200 on an FF, and my 60-250 (90-400 FF).

Given my experience, I just find this confusing.

[LFLee]

Perhaps consider starting out with a few D-primes. Smaller, more economical and they will give you more time and experience with the system to consider what lenses you'll want to save and pay big money for. I can't say if that's a more economical path in the long ( eg buying a focal length twice) but it gets you up and running.

Went to store today to actually hold a Canon 6D (they don't have D600, as they said it was 'discontinued').... honestly, the body feel flimsy like those T3i series... it has a 24-105 f4 (I don't remember clearly) lens on it. Missing a 2nd wheel at the back is weird. To select focus point, I need to press a button, then either move the font dial (move focus point left and right), or use the four directional wheel. Honestly, the thumb to move from pressing focus point and to the wheel is, awkward. Buttons like ISO, metering mode, shooting mode, etc, felt a little cheap too. For some reason, I think they definitely can make the body smaller with tighter tolerance.

Well, will try to get a hold on a D600/D610.

[dtmateojr]

...and as with any forum advice, anything that does not involve buying new gear can be safely ignored. Carry on ...

[Wired]

Anyone coming from a K-5 level of camera to a D600 that does not notice a more responsive and confident push of the shutter button and increased nailed focus rate must surly have had a different experience than me. And apart from the lens FOV business, that is about what you'd be getting in general. Don't expect a huge change in you photography all of a sudden.

increased nailed focus rate? - check
confident push of the shutter button? - never noticed, did find half press focus was more of a hair trigger though
change in photography? - not much until 6 months later.



I think the biggest thing anyone going to a Nikon needs to know that if they are processing the RAW files they need to select the camera/color profile!

[k5astro]

@LFLee - User experience is one of the great features of the Pentax. Its really well thought out. I haven't been impressed with the canon control and feel either.