Switch to FF or not? - a look at the wallet.

Clicker · 10-01-2013, 07:38 PM

I don't know about "reason or rhyme" as to why and how i chose...i just jumped out of the frying pan blindly and it's burning

The worst part is whatever gear i get i still haven't had or made the time to use the bloody things...missed meets, missed personal events, no motivation for self assignments

I guess that's a "rant", sorry carry on

...

all this "switching" can drive you mad...mad...really mad

...

on one hand you have a group praising full frame and on the other hand there's another group going the other way to smaller mirrorless

....

what's worst is now you have mirrorless going full frame

...

the marketers are having a field day in this industry but all that said there is one thing most any photographer agrees on (the ones who get paid) is that the bigger the sensor is better than the smaller one for all sorts of reasons we always seem to argue for or against...all the time

Last edited by Clicker; 10-01-2013 at 07:48 PM.

Mr Spocko · 10-02-2013, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Wired

try that same method of changing iso on D800/D600. Still my biggest gripe about the D600 and one of very few gripes about the D800 (weight is the big one) is the ISO button placement. There is no better place than where it is on the K5.

You can set the rear dial to change ISO so it's less of an issue than some might suggest.
Sad thing is that video button is useless as it can't be set for anything else, and it's in a prime location and not very useful if you don't do video much

normhead · 10-02-2013, 07:24 AM

Hey guys, Adam started a Nikon forum..... just saying.

Wired · 10-02-2013, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Mr Spocko

You can set the rear dial to change ISO so it's less of an issue than some might suggest.
Sad thing is that video button is useless as it can't be set for anything else, and it's in a prime location and not very useful if you don't do video much

But in full manual chances are both dials are assigned already to TV and AV

starbase218 · 10-02-2013, 10:30 AM

Don't know if someone said this before, but you're not really comparing equivalent lenses. E.g. for the Canon zooms, try this:
EF 24-70 f/4 L IS USM - 1500 USD
EF 70-200 f/4 L IS USM - 1350 USD
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM - 1700 USD

I just knocked 1550 USD of your price, with equivalent lenses to your Pentax zooms, and they are all stabilized. Sure, Pentax is still cheaper, but the difference is a lot smaller.

Andi Lo · 10-02-2013, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Wired

But in full manual chances are both dials are assigned already to TV and AV

My solution is to assign iso to top of my menu, and assign the DOF preview button to my menu. This way at least I don't have to move my left hand so it doesnt bother me as much. Such a stupid design decision.

The K10/K20 way was perfect; green button to switch auto on and off, rear wheel to increase / decrease. *rant rant*

I also just found out that D70 have "zoom to 100%", and that body is definitely lower grade than d600. FFS Nikon, Zoom to 100% is not a pro feature! Pentax has this starting from the K100D!

CypherOz · 10-02-2013, 08:00 PM

What genre you shoot should determine your equipment.
Eg. I do a lot of bird photography and APS-C works for me.
If I were doing portraits, weddings etc. 35mm or medium format would be better.

Mr Spocko · 10-03-2013, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by kenafein

You must be the most vocal proponent of the APS-H sensor size on the entire Internet

. However, I think it would be excellent for Pentax, because most of the limited primes would work on APS-H; and they'd be able to maintain a smaller camera, with SR.

I don't think it would be a bad idea either it should mean most of your APS-C lenses will work ok and you will get better use of FF lenses too, one would hope it would be a bit cheaper than FF as well.

What's not to like?

normhead · 10-03-2013, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by CypherOz

What genre you shoot should determine your equipment.
Eg. I do a lot of bird photography and APS-C works for me.
If I were doing portraits, weddings etc. 35mm or medium format would be better.

It used to be MF for weddings, 8x10 for portraiture. I have to say, from the perspective of an old geezer, there are a lot fewer class acts these days, people doing commercial work with consumer gear. I'm not sure if it's people don't expect what they used to, or people are too busy paying for their iPhones to pay a photographer.

FF is a sort of cross bread. APS-c is better for birding and most wildlife. MF is better for control of DoF. The FF remains as it has always been, a preferred compromise. As far as I can tell, the cheaper fall back of many who should be using MF, if you were to pick your tools by what you really need, instead of by what things cost.

Nesster · 10-03-2013, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by normhead

The FF remains as it has always been, a preferred compromise.

From one geezer to another: hear hear! And yet, with FF digital, as long as the electronics work, we get a more reliable/consistent and more easily manipulated medium as compared to film, which is not a bad thing. And the preferred compromise has brought about a greater freedom of composition, motion, and creativity (e.g. in advertising and editorial) as compared to the more formal and static norm (is that a pun?) with large format photography.

RonHendriks1966 · 10-03-2013, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by kenafein

You must be the most vocal proponent of the APS-H sensor size on the entire Internet

. However, I think it would be excellent for Pentax, because most of the limited primes would work on APS-H; and they'd be able to maintain a smaller camera, with SR.

Originally posted by normhead

I agree. A 28 MP APS-H sensor would absolutely rock. I just don't think it will ever happen. Although with the Q they did go to a larger sensor to try and increase IQ, it's not like they haven't done it before.

Originally posted by jogiba

There is a better chance of Pentax coming out with a full frame than a 28MP APS-H IMHO.

Well I still think it is an excellent idea to have a unique designed sensor for our Ricoh/Pentax camera instead of just having one that is already out on the market for a year or so. I see that Sony already is taking the A99 out of production, so there must bee no garanty to be succesfull with a new FF offering.

normhead · 10-03-2013, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

From one geezer to another: hear hear! And yet, with FF digital, as long as the electronics work, we get a more reliable/consistent and more easily manipulated medium as compared to film, which is not a bad thing. And the preferred compromise has brought about a greater freedom of composition, motion, and creativity (e.g. in advertising and editorial) as compared to the more formal and static norm (is that a pun?) with large format photography.

I've been called the "class norm" and the "ab-norm" but never the "static norm". A first.

jogiba · 10-03-2013, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well I still think it is an excellent idea to have a unique designed sensor for our Ricoh/Pentax camera instead of just having one that is already out on the market for a year or so. I see that Sony already is taking the A99 out of production, so there must bee no garanty to be succesfull with a new FF offering.

Sony has several new full frame cameras coming.
(SR5) And the NEX-FF names are….A7 and A7r! | sonyalpharumors

RonHendriks1966 · 10-03-2013, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

Sony has several new full frame cameras coming.
(SR5) And the NEX-FF names are….A7 and A7r! | sonyalpharumors

So just nothing for A-mount, but concentrating on E-mount.

kenafein · 10-03-2013, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I see that Sony already is taking the A99 out of production, so there must bee no garanty to be succesfull with a new FF offering.

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

So just nothing for A-mount, but concentrating on E-mount.

They are only removing the A99 because they are dropping SLT technology. They will release a full frame A-mount camera, next year, with on sensor PDAF detection. It's going to be an evolution of the technology that exists in the NEX 6 and newer, mid level to premium, E-mount cameras.

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10-01-2013, 07:38 PM	#61
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	I don't know about "reason or rhyme" as to why and how i chose...i just jumped out of the frying pan blindly and it's burning The worst part is whatever gear i get i still haven't had or made the time to use the bloody things...missed meets, missed personal events, no motivation for self assignments I guess that's a "rant", sorry carry on ... all this "switching" can drive you mad...mad...really mad ... on one hand you have a group praising full frame and on the other hand there's another group going the other way to smaller mirrorless .... what's worst is now you have mirrorless going full frame ... the marketers are having a field day in this industry but all that said there is one thing most any photographer agrees on (the ones who get paid) is that the bigger the sensor is better than the smaller one for all sorts of reasons we always seem to argue for or against...all the time Last edited by Clicker; 10-01-2013 at 07:48 PM.

10-02-2013, 07:22 AM	#62
Mr Spocko Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 254	Originally posted by Wired try that same method of changing iso on D800/D600. Still my biggest gripe about the D600 and one of very few gripes about the D800 (weight is the big one) is the ISO button placement. There is no better place than where it is on the K5. You can set the rear dial to change ISO so it's less of an issue than some might suggest. Sad thing is that video button is useless as it can't be set for anything else, and it's in a prime location and not very useful if you don't do video much

10-02-2013, 07:24 AM	#63
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Hey guys, Adam started a Nikon forum..... just saying.

10-02-2013, 10:22 AM	#64
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	Originally posted by Mr Spocko You can set the rear dial to change ISO so it's less of an issue than some might suggest. Sad thing is that video button is useless as it can't be set for anything else, and it's in a prime location and not very useful if you don't do video much But in full manual chances are both dials are assigned already to TV and AV

10-02-2013, 10:30 AM	#65
starbase218 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy, Universe Posts: 1,119	Don't know if someone said this before, but you're not really comparing equivalent lenses. E.g. for the Canon zooms, try this: EF 24-70 f/4 L IS USM - 1500 USD EF 70-200 f/4 L IS USM - 1350 USD EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM - 1700 USD I just knocked 1550 USD of your price, with equivalent lenses to your Pentax zooms, and they are all stabilized. Sure, Pentax is still cheaper, but the difference is a lot smaller.

10-02-2013, 10:40 AM	#66
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by Wired But in full manual chances are both dials are assigned already to TV and AV My solution is to assign iso to top of my menu, and assign the DOF preview button to my menu. This way at least I don't have to move my left hand so it doesnt bother me as much. Such a stupid design decision. The K10/K20 way was perfect; green button to switch auto on and off, rear wheel to increase / decrease. rant rant I also just found out that D70 have "zoom to 100%", and that body is definitely lower grade than d600. FFS Nikon, Zoom to 100% is not a pro feature! Pentax has this starting from the K100D!

10-02-2013, 08:00 PM	#67
CypherOz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Adelaide Posts: 246	What genre you shoot should determine your equipment. Eg. I do a lot of bird photography and APS-C works for me. If I were doing portraits, weddings etc. 35mm or medium format would be better.

10-03-2013, 04:17 AM	#68
Mr Spocko Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 254	Originally posted by kenafein You must be the most vocal proponent of the APS-H sensor size on the entire Internet . However, I think it would be excellent for Pentax, because most of the limited primes would work on APS-H; and they'd be able to maintain a smaller camera, with SR. I don't think it would be a bad idea either it should mean most of your APS-C lenses will work ok and you will get better use of FF lenses too, one would hope it would be a bit cheaper than FF as well. What's not to like?

10-03-2013, 05:27 AM	#69
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by CypherOz What genre you shoot should determine your equipment. Eg. I do a lot of bird photography and APS-C works for me. If I were doing portraits, weddings etc. 35mm or medium format would be better. It used to be MF for weddings, 8x10 for portraiture. I have to say, from the perspective of an old geezer, there are a lot fewer class acts these days, people doing commercial work with consumer gear. I'm not sure if it's people don't expect what they used to, or people are too busy paying for their iPhones to pay a photographer. FF is a sort of cross bread. APS-c is better for birding and most wildlife. MF is better for control of DoF. The FF remains as it has always been, a preferred compromise. As far as I can tell, the cheaper fall back of many who should be using MF, if you were to pick your tools by what you really need, instead of by what things cost.

10-03-2013, 05:51 AM	#70
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Originally posted by normhead The FF remains as it has always been, a preferred compromise. From one geezer to another: hear hear! And yet, with FF digital, as long as the electronics work, we get a more reliable/consistent and more easily manipulated medium as compared to film, which is not a bad thing. And the preferred compromise has brought about a greater freedom of composition, motion, and creativity (e.g. in advertising and editorial) as compared to the more formal and static norm (is that a pun?) with large format photography.

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10-03-2013, 07:53 AM	#71
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by kenafein You must be the most vocal proponent of the APS-H sensor size on the entire Internet . However, I think it would be excellent for Pentax, because most of the limited primes would work on APS-H; and they'd be able to maintain a smaller camera, with SR. Originally posted by normhead I agree. A 28 MP APS-H sensor would absolutely rock. I just don't think it will ever happen. Although with the Q they did go to a larger sensor to try and increase IQ, it's not like they haven't done it before. Originally posted by jogiba There is a better chance of Pentax coming out with a full frame than a 28MP APS-H IMHO. Well I still think it is an excellent idea to have a unique designed sensor for our Ricoh/Pentax camera instead of just having one that is already out on the market for a year or so. I see that Sony already is taking the A99 out of production, so there must bee no garanty to be succesfull with a new FF offering.

10-03-2013, 08:04 AM	#72
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Nesster From one geezer to another: hear hear! And yet, with FF digital, as long as the electronics work, we get a more reliable/consistent and more easily manipulated medium as compared to film, which is not a bad thing. And the preferred compromise has brought about a greater freedom of composition, motion, and creativity (e.g. in advertising and editorial) as compared to the more formal and static norm (is that a pun?) with large format photography. I've been called the "class norm" and the "ab-norm" but never the "static norm". A first.

10-03-2013, 08:06 AM	#73
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well I still think it is an excellent idea to have a unique designed sensor for our Ricoh/Pentax camera instead of just having one that is already out on the market for a year or so. I see that Sony already is taking the A99 out of production, so there must bee no garanty to be succesfull with a new FF offering. Sony has several new full frame cameras coming. (SR5) And the NEX-FF names are….A7 and A7r! \| sonyalpharumors

10-03-2013, 08:09 AM	#74
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by jogiba Sony has several new full frame cameras coming. (SR5) And the NEX-FF names are….A7 and A7r! \| sonyalpharumors So just nothing for A-mount, but concentrating on E-mount.

10-03-2013, 09:17 AM	#75
kenafein Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern California Photos: Albums Posts: 4,082	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I see that Sony already is taking the A99 out of production, so there must bee no garanty to be succesfull with a new FF offering. Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 So just nothing for A-mount, but concentrating on E-mount. They are only removing the A99 because they are dropping SLT technology. They will release a full frame A-mount camera, next year, with on sensor PDAF detection. It's going to be an evolution of the technology that exists in the NEX 6 and newer, mid level to premium, E-mount cameras.