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10-18-2013, 12:57 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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Pentax full-frame? A huge mistake...

Looking at the PR for the new Sony, the first thing that jumps out is the lens costs. Insane. Tell me -- if you were running Pentax, would you actually risk a lot of money making a camera that only a few people would buy? Does anybody actually want 24MP, let alone 36MP? Whatever for? There are very few professionals left... and, of those, VERY few who would ditch their existing Canikon gear collections. Forget that one.

What's left? Retiring baby boomers, who finally have time for photography hobby, share their images on the internet, and never print larger than 11 x 14. That's 16MP territory with cropping room to spare. But -- this group is price sensitive, and is NOT going to drop $1,000 on a lens. Not very often, anyway... the very rich 1% of this group is probably off in Leica-land anyway.

No. The K-3 is the perfect high-end camera for this demographic... and with the 16MP price range going down to the K-500, it's a complete lineup. All that's needed is to SELL it. Next time I get an AARP magazine, AAA's Westways, or National Geographic, I want to see a full page Pentax ad inside that front cover!

10-18-2013, 01:05 AM   #2
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Why is 24MP ok for the K-3 but not for the A7? The Pentax K-3 looks like it will be a fine camera, but I bet Sony will sell more A7/Rs than Pentax sells K-3s. The adapted lens segment is pretty huge and these cameras are going to be a great option to play with all that legacy glass, not to mention the Leica boys who can't afford or have to wait a year for their new M. Pentax prices, lately, don't make the Sony lenses look all that expensive, but it would have been smart for Sony to release a few cheaper lenses.

Last edited by kenafein; 10-18-2013 at 01:16 AM.
10-18-2013, 01:17 AM   #3
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@kenafein -- at some point, you HAVE to get out there and SELL! Marketing! Ad campaigns! Demo cameras in the stores!

I made a mistake in my post, above. Yes, the K-3 is 24MP, right? But, bottom line, who cares. You can have the best product in the world but if you don't tell people, if you don't actively sell it, you'll just become a marginal player.

Here's hoping that Ricoh gets their new Pentax brand back in the ballgame!
10-18-2013, 01:24 AM - 1 Like   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
@kenafein -- at some point, you HAVE to get out there and SELL! Marketing! Ad campaigns! Demo cameras in the stores!

I made a mistake in my post, above. Yes, the K-3 is 24MP, right? But, bottom line, who cares. You can have the best product in the world but if you don't tell people, if you don't actively sell it, you'll just become a marginal player.

Here's hoping that Ricoh gets their new Pentax brand back in the ballgame!
Ricoh got some buzz for the K-3 because of their amazing new AA feature, but Sony has set the internet ablaze because their offering was more interesting. Sure, Sony is marketing these things, but most of the press is free because these are something different. Ricoh wouldn't have to market much if they came up with something this exciting. Products like the Ricoh GR are a step in the right direction. Pentax cameras are amazing, but the benefits are not really so tangible to the uninitiated.

10-18-2013, 02:20 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
Looking at the PR for the new Sony, the first thing that jumps out is the lens costs. Insane. Tell me -- if you were running Pentax, would you actually risk a lot of money making a camera that only a few people would buy? Does anybody actually want 24MP, let alone 36MP? Whatever for? There are very few professionals left... and, of those, VERY few who would ditch their existing Canikon gear collections. Forget that one.

What's left? Retiring baby boomers, who finally have time for photography hobby, share their images on the internet, and never print larger than 11 x 14. That's 16MP territory with cropping room to spare. But -- this group is price sensitive, and is NOT going to drop $1,000 on a lens. Not very often, anyway... the very rich 1% of this group is probably off in Leica-land anyway.

No. The K-3 is the perfect high-end camera for this demographic... and with the 16MP price range going down to the K-500, it's a complete lineup. All that's needed is to SELL it. Next time I get an AARP magazine, AAA's Westways, or National Geographic, I want to see a full page Pentax ad inside that front cover!
There are definitely more big spenders out there than you'd expect. All you need is the right product!

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10-18-2013, 02:25 AM   #6
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Well I don't think I'm the only one who just placed an order of a Sony A7r with k2e-adapter? It will be exciting to use my FA-limiteds, the A50/f1.2 and the A28/f2.8 without crop factor and at 36 megapixels.
10-18-2013, 03:03 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
The Pentax K-3 looks like it will be a fine camera, but I bet Sony will sell more A7/Rs than Pentax sells K-3s.
I don't think so. My guess is that the K-3 outsells the A7 by 5-10 times in numbers (not talking about profit). I don't think we will see this camera in the top 20 next year, while the K-3 will be in the bottom off the groupe. Sony sells mostly cheaper camera's because people don't see it as a brand that gives you status and thus spending to much money on it isn't bringing you it. Other camera's can also deliver the IQ, futures and lenses.


Well Pentax can make a FF, but it won't be the big seller at this moment. I think it can be done with profit, and that is also very important.
10-18-2013, 03:10 AM   #8
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I don't think Sony is going to sell that many A7s, but it probably still makes sense for Pentax to bring a camera to market that has a full frame sensor. Sony lenses are expensive, in general, but there are lots of not quite so expensive lenses that you could use for a Pentax camera (Tamron 28-75, Sigma 70-200). But certainly, I wouldn't expect Ricoh to bring out some kind of discount option. Something between the D600 and D800 and priced accordingly.

10-18-2013, 03:10 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by x-country Quote
well i don't think i'm the only one who just placed an order of a sony a7r with k2e-adapter? It will be exciting to use my fa-limiteds, the a50/f1.2 and the a28/f2.8 without crop factor and at 36 megapixels.
infidel!!!1!11!
10-18-2013, 04:12 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
at some point, you HAVE to get out there and SELL! Marketing! Ad campaigns! Demo cameras in the stores!
True! Pentax/Ricoh needs to be aggressive in their marketing strategies if they want to sell and to be truly noticed...
There was this one time when I was wearing my photographer's vest with a huge Pentax logo on my back while photographing an event, then there a lot of people came and asked me if "Pentax" is the name of my studio. Shockingly! Many doesn't even know that there's a camera company that's called Pentax...

Anyway, about having a Pentax full frame, there are actually A LOT of people who would want and need one... Take Sony cameras and their users for example. A lot of them were very happy with their APS-C's, but when Sony released a full frame, there are actually MANY of them who invested on FF and many switched to Sony for it, and in addition, when the A7 just came out, a lot of NEX users were drooling on it, and we know that NEX is a fine APS-C camera too...
If Pentax/Ricoh brings out a FF system, you will be surprised that a LOT will invest on it either professionals or enthusiasts and WILL attract a lot of photographers from CaNikon...
10-18-2013, 05:02 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by x-country Quote
Well I don't think I'm the only one who just placed an order of a Sony A7r with k2e-adapter? It will be exciting to use my FA-limiteds, the A50/f1.2 and the A28/f2.8 without crop factor and at 36 megapixels.
I ordered the A7, as I think 24 MP is more practical. This isn't "jumping ship" - it just looks like a good way to use all my SMC-M lenses. I have no autofocus (except the kit lens that came with my K-5) and don't want any; so don't plan on buying any new lenses anyway. While EFVs are not perfect, they make using manual diaphragm operation easy, as well as making focus easy in dim light. I usually use rangefinder Leica for available light work, so this will be an interesting comparison.
If Ricoh comes out with a FF Pentax that works great with manual-focus legacy lenses, I'd get one. But until then using them on the K-5 is too hard on my old eyes. I'm too old to wait around for "maybe."
10-18-2013, 05:22 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
...
If Pentax/Ricoh brings out a FF system, you will be surprised that a LOT will invest on it either professionals or enthusiasts and WILL attract a lot of photographers from CaNikon...
IF they have already made the investment in Sony/nikon/canon lenses, it will be very hard to draw them out of that system. The early bird gets the worm, they say. If Pentax is to have any chance to capture that market, they need to act fast, at the early phase of the APS-c to FF transition.
10-18-2013, 05:24 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Why is 24MP ok for the K-3 but not for the A7? .
Because you can have that resolution in an APS body. Usually the APS semsor is at least a generation in front of the lower FF ones. Be interesting to see a comparison between the K3 and the D600. I wouldn't be surprised if the K-3 yields better image quality at lower ISO values.
A 36mp+ FF camera is another matter though, and I really hope Pentax FF body is at least 36mp.

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 10-18-2013 at 05:32 AM.
10-18-2013, 05:28 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think Sony is going to sell that many A7s, but it probably still makes sense for Pentax to bring a camera to market that has a full frame sensor. Sony lenses are expensive, in general, but there are lots of not quite so expensive lenses that you could use for a Pentax camera (Tamron 28-75, Sigma 70-200). But certainly, I wouldn't expect Ricoh to bring out some kind of discount option. Something between the D600 and D800 and priced accordingly.
The Sony A7 will make the same impact on FF DSLR's as their APS mirrorless bodies made on APS DSLR; ZERO.
FF lenses for Pentax isn't really rocket science. Some of the DA* lenses are indeed FF lenses, like the 300 and 200mm; they could be rebadget as HD FA lenses. The same is true for the Limiteds and the 100 Macro. Add a 70-200/2.8, shouldn't be more expensive than the 200/2.8, and a 24-70/2.8; a 28-70/4 and a 20-35/4 and they are all set for launch....
I would also ike to see a HD FA 22/2.8 Limited to round up the FA Limited trilogy.
10-18-2013, 05:29 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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Why do so many people here only ever think of the existing Western countries as the only significant market for photographic gear?

Twenty years ago, when I was involved in government, there were more people in India with incomes above the Australian average than the entire population of Australia. I suspect the proportion now is even higher, and India isn't even close to the growth that China is experiencing.

The idea that the FF camera market is small and saturated is clearly nonsense when there are so many people joining the high disposable income groups in Asian countries alone, not to mention Russia. Failing to see the opportunities provided by that growth means you'll never benefit from it, which probably explains some of the economic problems in the US and Europe right now.
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