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11-07-2013, 02:51 PM   #106
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take my money!

11-08-2013, 04:17 AM   #107
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If Ricoh is ever going to launch a LX digital, they better learn from Nikon Df's lessons below (quote from dpreview) Ricoh can do better by offering interchangable prisms.

QuoteQuote:
So does the 'fusion' work?
The 'f' in Df stands for 'fusion', and Nikon is clearly hoping to grab a slice of the nostalgia pie that's proved so appetizing for Fujifilm and Olympus buyers. But much as I wanted to love the Df in the way everyone at Nikon clearly does, I'm not convinced. The concept is great, but key details of its implementation are puzzling.

The choice of putting ISO and exposure compensation on the top left and adding locking buttons leaves me cold. I want a camera that makes it easy for me to change key exposure settings while looking through the viewfinder - this does anything but. (In contrast I love the Fujifilm X-Pro1, because its traditional control dials are carefully-placed for ease of use.) Likewise the choice of a tiny mode dial that has to be lifted before it can be turned - I don't fancy trying that with gloves on.

For a camera that wears its lens back-compatibility so proudly, the decision to use a fixed viewfinder screen with no split-prism manual focus aid is odd. To me this camera is crying out for interchangeable focus screens, even if it means limiting the metering to centre-weighted average. After all, that's pretty retro too.

Then there's the eye-watering price. If it cost in the same region as the D610, the Df would make perfect sense. But instead it's a huge premium for a camera that trades on looks rather than features - you can buy yourself a very nice lens or two for the difference. It seems as though Nikon is gambling on buyers letting their hearts rule their heads on this one - but in the run-up to Christmas, this might just pay off.

- Andy Westlake
11-08-2013, 08:17 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I find that to be totally believable.
Here's his post on another forum. He also said the same in a private message.

QuoteQuote:

The Nikon Df....

I'm currently in HKG doing company business & called in earlier this
morning at a favourite camera shop on Kowloon side & had a play
with the Df....all I can say is that it's OK. That's it...simply OK. Nothing
more.

OK...it looks like an FM with some more buttons & knobs, what a kick
in the bum to one of Nikon's finest cameras ever made.

OK it has a 16.2 Mp sensor...big deal. My D800 has a 36.3 Mp sensor.

OK it has "controls" like the D610....that just means it has the same
type of controls as the D7000 & D7100 have which is what the bad
D600 & Nikon cockups corrected D610 controls were copied from.

OK it has a 39 point AF system...big deal...it's just another copy of
the D7K, D7100, D600/610...because they all have a 39 point AF
system.

OK it comes with a custom made "classic themed" 50mm 1.8 lens.
Big deal...a custom made classic themed 50mm 1.4 or 1.2 would
have sweetened the deal but a crap f1.8...BS.

OK...the Nikon Df costs USD 2999.95 with the above mentioned
lens in kit form or take off USD 250 for the body alone....well...
actually this is not OK...it's way over priced for what it is and "it"
in no way can be compared to a D4.

Personally I could care less that it doesn't shoot video so I'm
neutral on the OK-not OK - you gotta be kidding me here.

The Df is nothing more than a niche camera for somebody with a
whole lotta money to spend and little brains to use.

If one wants retro or classic one can easily buy a virgin FM or FM2
here in HKG, to include a motor drive that's also a virgin, then
a couple nifty primes or whatever which will be used & in excellent
condition, a bag to toss the camera/lenses into and a rebuilt Nikon
Cool Scan IV...& finally perhaps...a bunch of film stock...

And still have USD 800.00 left over for whatever usage one see's
fit to use it for.
11-08-2013, 11:58 AM   #109
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So the Df isn't perfect, didn't reach expectations, but its an important first step! Pentax missed its chance to be the first again, but on the other hand, now Pentax can learn from Nikon's mistakes and make a really excellent product.
I am not saying I want a camera that "looks" retro, but I want one that isn't just a plastic shell with a bunch of features that I won't use. I wouldn't mind a "barebones" type of camera that excels in still photography, has excellent build, and comes at a decent price; but it omits some of the bells and whistles. Now, sure, the Nikon Df isn't exactly that, but it is a kick in that direction. We'll see how the market responds.
Pentax also has the advantage that it already has some great lenses made for such a camera - the FA limiteds (unlike the Nikon, which comes with a 50mm f1.8 - a very common but not really magical lens)

11-08-2013, 12:07 PM - 1 Like   #110
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QuoteQuote:
So the Df isn't perfect, didn't reach expectations, but its an important first step! Pentax missed its chance to be the first again,
First at something that's imperfect? I'm not sure that's something to strive for.
11-08-2013, 12:22 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by mythguy9 Quote
If Ricoh is ever going to launch a LX digital, they better learn from Nikon Df's lessons below
Herein is the problem. One line in that quote that stops me cold from ever reading more...
QuoteQuote:
The choice of putting ISO and exposure compensation on the top left and adding locking buttons leaves me cold.
That is someones personal preference. Perhaps that view is supported by the majority of people. Apparently not all. I'm thinking how I shoot my current DSLR the most now and can easily visualize how having, for example, the ISO selection by dial fast and convenient compared to what I do now.
11-08-2013, 03:15 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
So the Df isn't perfect, didn't reach expectations, but its an important first step! Pentax missed its chance to be the first again, but on the other hand, now Pentax can learn from Nikon's mistakes and make a really excellent product.
I am not saying I want a camera that "looks" retro, but I want one that isn't just a plastic shell with a bunch of features that I won't use. I wouldn't mind a "barebones" type of camera that excels in still photography, has excellent build, and comes at a decent price; but it omits some of the bells and whistles. Now, sure, the Nikon Df isn't exactly that, but it is a kick in that direction. We'll see how the market responds.
Pentax also has the advantage that it already has some great lenses made for such a camera - the FA limiteds (unlike the Nikon, which comes with a 50mm f1.8 - a very common but not really magical lens)
That's what he said publically. Privately he was not nearly so kind about the Nikon Df.

A retro camera is going to look pretty strange with modern lenses on it. It's not the same as sticking heritage glass on the front of a modern camera, that to me looks okay, it says "that's clever". If it's a full frame you're going to want lenses like Sigma's new 35mm f/1.4 Art. That'll look odd on a retro style body.

My K-5 and K-5 IIs (and K-3, as soon as the suppliers in Bangkok actually get back to me) involve surprisingly little in the way of plastic in their construction. Magnesium alloy I believe and I also understand and use all the features.

I think this retro thing is the wrong way to go. I'd sooner have a camera that just concentrates on taking the best possible photos. Put the design and engineering investment into that.

Last edited by Parry; 11-09-2013 at 10:53 AM.
11-08-2013, 03:57 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parry Quote
...
A retro camera is going to look pretty strange with modern lenses on it. It's not the same as sticking heritage glass on the front of a modern camera,
...
That's what was running through my mind too. But the more I see the black one in videos, the more it just looks like just a variation of a DSLR. I haven't seen a black one with a modern lens on it yet. But I don't it will be too long before I do were I can fully asses that aesthetic.

Think of the 645D. For someone coming from the film days shooting mostly medium format might immediately recognize a 645D and as a rounded, modern-day 645NII film camera. It could even be perceived as a retro camera too for its resemblance.

11-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
That's what was running through my mind too. But the more I see the black one in videos, the more it just looks like just a variation of a DSLR. I haven't seen a black one with a modern lens on it yet. But I don't it will be too long before I do were I can fully asses that aesthetic.

Think of the 645D. For someone coming from the film days shooting mostly medium format might immediately recognize a 645D and as a rounded, modern-day 645NII film camera. It could even be perceived as a retro camera too for its resemblance.
I think the Nikon Df will sell in bucket loads to people with money and no photography experience at all. It's jewellery.
11-09-2013, 10:26 AM   #115
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I'm absolutely in love with the Nikon Df. I weathered the high-MP D800 craze, then the "cheap" D600 & 6D, then the latest mirrorless Sonys. But the Df? This is what I hoped Pentax would make. But they didn't and their system is sooooo old.
So I've finally jumped the gun and pre-ordered the Df. I'll start with a 50 build up the new system from there. I figure when Pentax does make a FF (it's inevitable), it's extremely unlikely to outperform, say, a 5DIII, and no way it's going to exceed the purist charm of the Df.
11-09-2013, 10:33 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
I'm absolutely in love with the Nikon Df. I weathered the high-MP D800 craze, then the "cheap" D600 & 6D, then the latest mirrorless Sonys. But the Df? This is what I hoped Pentax would make. But they didn't and their system is sooooo old.
So I've finally jumped the gun and pre-ordered the Df. I'll start with a 50 build up the new system from there. I figure when Pentax does make a FF (it's inevitable), it's extremely unlikely to outperform, say, a 5DIII, and no way it's going to exceed the purist charm of the Df.
I have rarely seen a post on a photography forum, with so little about photography in it.

QuoteQuote:
]I'm absolutely in love with the Nikon Df. This is what I hoped Pentax would make. But they didn't and their system is sooooo old.
Well, not really, but as they say, love is blind. Did you read the post that said this camera was actually designed like years ago, and was delayed by the tsunami? Old is relative i guess. It resembles K-5 technology, because it is K-5 technology.
11-09-2013, 12:20 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I have rarely seen a post on a photography forum, with so little about photography in it.

False statement and hyperbole. My post is neither instructive or obliged to meet your standards.


Well, not really, but as they say, love is blind. Did you read the post that said this camera was actually designed like years ago, and was delayed by the tsunami? Old is relative i guess. It resembles K-5 technology, because it is K-5 technology.
I clearly said the Pentax system is old (I.e., flash, glass) without mentioning the components or development timeline of the Df. Regardless, since you bring it up, what difference does it make what technology was recycled in the Df? Nikon has addressed consumer market demand, however small, nostalgic, or empty headed and sheep-like (likely your high-minded verdict of such a foolish consumer) with this product.
More than Pentax has done at any rate. How many folks on this forum have clamored for a FF Pentax of <any> flavor? If someone here celebrated a new K1 that happened to re-use Safox IX+ or Prime II would you harp on blind love and old tech? You're one of those posters who view anyone unsatisfied with the current Pentax catalog with disdain. The my-k5-can-do-anything-your-ff-can-do or it's-the-photographer-not-the-camera bleater.
11-09-2013, 12:36 PM   #118
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QuoteQuote:
You're one of those posters who view anyone unsatisfied with the current Pentax catalog with disdain. The my-k5-can-do-anything-your-ff-can-do or it's-the-photographer-not-the-camera bleater.
So am I to assume you have no respect for people who post such opinions?

QuoteQuote:
You're one of those posters who view anyone unsatisfied with the current Pentax catalog with disdain.
No, I'm one of those "If you're not satisfied with your Pentax, don't go away angry, just go away" kind of people. It's not up to anyone here, much less Pentax to make you happy. Only you can do that. Pentax, myself and the rest of the folks on the forum, take absolutely no responsibility for curing you of your misery.
11-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So am I to assume you have no respect for people who post such opinions?



No, I'm one of those "If you're not satisfied with your Pentax, don't go away angry, just go away" kind of people. It's not up to anyone here, much less Pentax to make you happy. Only you can do that. Pentax, myself and the rest of the folks on the forum, take absolutely no responsibility for curing you of your misery.
This is becoming a bore. To anyone actually reading this insipid exchange, Normhead nicely illustrates what is called a "strawman". This is a false argument created by purposely misrepresenting or paraphrasing someone's statements. Here, Normhead portrays me as unhappy and miserable with Pentax, their gear is no good, and my posts were a call for help to the Pentax community for relief.
It's clear, however, that I said wrote none of these things. I was excited about and pre-ordered the forthcoming Nikon Df. As a long-time Pentax user, I defended the logic of buying into a new (and costly) system by reasoning that Pentax has not significantly updated their system of late and a new FF would unlikely surpass current competitor models. Nowhere (in a FF thread no less) did I say Pentax had bad cameras, etc.
Had I not written my post, I would have simply assumed the author was a Pentax user who, for whatever reason, was in the market for a retro-styled FF cam and found it. Maybe there were other like-minded folks out there, maybe Pentax was listening. Normhead assumed incorrectly and did it rudely.
11-09-2013, 01:50 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by MrPetkus Quote
How many folks on this forum have clamored for a FF Pentax of flavor?
152 out of 56,971 members according to the poll. Which includes a 'yes' vote from me, but I don't think I've ever clamored.....
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