FF possible

normhead · 11-26-2013, 06:34 PM

I wonder if they could put an FF sensor into a K-3 body. I should look in and see how much extra room there is.

Shanti · 11-26-2013, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I wonder if they could put an FF sensor into a K-3 body. I should look in and see how much extra room there is.

if Nikon & Sony can make small FF,then of course Pentax can as well..K5/K3 design is perfect,maybe a bit bigger but still smaller than D610..and with 36MP sensor

Uluru · 11-26-2013, 11:41 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

I wonder if they could put an FF sensor into a K-3 body. I should look in and see how much extra room there is.

Yes it can. There are many working prototypes.
Size and performance aren’t the issue. But the right moment, right price and right enticement are. Ricoh Imaging is well aware the public will judge their first FF product and put in under a microscope to find faults, be more critical of it than of any other FF product by other manufacturers.

RonHendriks1966 · 11-27-2013, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by DogLover

I think this is absolutely the most likely product. A FF K-3. Everything the same except the sensor. Requires the least investment into R&D, tooling, etc. Ironically, this is also exactly what I hope it turns out to be.

Or put in an APS-H sensor and make me happy

Clavius · 11-27-2013, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

Yes it can. There are many working prototypes.

I believe it is possible to put an FF sensor in a K-3 too.

What I'm interested in, is in the "many working prototypes"-part. Do you have any sources whatsoever? My credo always is: if I can't see, touch it or hear it, it's probably not there. Working prototype would have leaked.

VisualDarkness · 11-27-2013, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by DogLover

I agree that it seems really unlikely to happen that soon, though a Pentax rep at a trade show in Sweden (I think) said to look for "big things" in Q1 2014. Doesn't necessarily mean FF, obviously. My guess (and it's purely a guess) would be Q2 or Q3.

Actually two Pentax rep said it multiple times and I have no reason to distrust them. The years before have been a bit dead when it came to Pentax at the Trade Show.

ElJamoquio · 11-27-2013, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

I believe it is possible to put an FF sensor in a K-3 too.

What I'm interested in, is in the "many working prototypes"-part. Do you have any sources whatsoever? My credo always is: if I can't see, touch it or hear it, it's probably not there. Working prototype would have leaked.

We saw the K-3, what, a month before release or so?

Clavius · 11-27-2013, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

We saw the K-3, what, a month before release or so?

Yes, but that is not a reason to state as a fact that there are "numerous working prototypes" of a Pentax FF DSLR.

normhead · 11-27-2013, 11:04 AM

Looking in the K-3 or K-5, that placement of the SDM contacts is a serious issue for the mirror in an FF. I'm guessing if they do use the K-5 body, it will be screw drive only.Which would make sense, when the US guy retired, did he not mention that he'd accepted 3 screw drive FF lenses as a parting gift?

Fogel70 · 11-27-2013, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Looking in the K-3 or K-5, that placement of the SDM contacts is a serious issue for the mirror in an FF. I'm guessing if they do use the K-5 body, it will be screw drive only.Which would make sense, when the US guy retired, did he not mention that he'd accepted 3 screw drive FF lenses as a parting gift?

The power zoom contacts that are used for SDM came in the film days, so it should not be much of a problem for a FF DSLR.

mamethot · 11-27-2013, 11:36 AM

My Sigma 70-200 2.8 is a FF lense and has these contacts.

Uluru · 11-27-2013, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Clavius

I believe it is possible to put an FF sensor in a K-3 too.

What I'm interested in, is in the "many working prototypes"-part. Do you have any sources whatsoever? My credo always is: if I can't see, touch it or hear it, it's probably not there. Working prototype would have leaked.

Yes, numerous.

When a K-5 body was used as a starting point, it helped establish all the requirements needed for all the changes necessary that a K-5 class camera can be used as an FF cradle. For example, a complete mirror mechanism and shutter redesigns, implemented now in K-3 and shared in the future FF DSLR. That is what I got indadvertedly and concluded from my contacts (they mentioned “improvements on K-5”).

What prompts me believe contacts were right is that I see a persistent Pentax strategy of sharing development cost, reusing of concepts as much as possible, improving on details and lowering the risk to an absolute minimum.

But I cannot comment on types of all new designs and all new concepts other than a typical DSLR, nor I have heard that anyone has confirmed anything about such alternatives. So I take all LX-D, A-mount, etc. as unverifiable wishy-washy rumours.

Would I like to see an LX-D? Of course, but at this stage, it should be regarded as fiction.

normhead · 11-28-2013, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Fogel70

The power zoom contacts that are used for SDM came in the film days, so it should not be much of a problem for a FF DSLR.

Actually, there were no SDM lenses until quite a bit after the film days as far as I know. Are their film cameras that can use SDM lenses? ALl F lenses were screw drive.

Originally posted by mamethot

My Sigma 70-200 2.8 is a FF lense and has these contacts.

Have you tried your 70-200 on a film body? It could still be that adding the SDM contacts works on APS-c but not on FF.

Hey I don't know for sure, maybe SDM is FF compatible.

Looking at an SF1, compared to a K-5 it does look like it could be done.

Just thinking out loud here.

**jatrax** · 11-28-2013, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Actually, there were no SDM lenses until quite a bit after the film days as far as I know. Are their film cameras that can use SDM lenses? ALl F lenses were screw drive.

I think he meant only that the power zoom contacts were present on film cameras and thus should not be in the way of a FF mirror. Not that SDM itself would work on a film camera. I'm not sure what would happen if you put an SDM lens on a film camera with powerzoom contacts. I guess the best result would be "nothing" and the worst would be a fried lens.

But surely Pentax would have thought of the possibility and made it so it would not damage the lens.........

**RuiC** · 11-28-2013, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Looking in the K-3 or K-5, that placement of the SDM contacts is a serious issue for the mirror in an FF. I'm guessing if they do use the K-5 body, it will be screw drive only.Which would make sense, when the US guy retired, did he not mention that he'd accepted 3 screw drive FF lenses as a parting gift?

Originally posted by Fogel70

The power zoom contacts that are used for SDM came in the film days, so it should not be much of a problem for a FF DSLR.

Originally posted by normhead

Actually, there were no SDM lenses until quite a bit after the film days as far as I know. Are their film cameras that can use SDM lenses? ALl F lenses were screw drive.

Have you tried your 70-200 on a film body? It could still be that adding the SDM contacts works on APS-c but not on FF.

Hey I don't know for sure, maybe SDM is FF compatible.

Looking at an SF1, compared to a K-5 it does look like it could be done.

Just thinking out loud here.

That placement of the SDM contacts is NOT a serious issue for the mirror in an FF body just because they are a heritage from the film bodies. They used those contacts already!

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11-26-2013, 06:34 PM	#76
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	I wonder if they could put an FF sensor into a K-3 body. I should look in and see how much extra room there is.

11-26-2013, 09:15 PM	#77
Shanti Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Western Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by normhead I wonder if they could put an FF sensor into a K-3 body. I should look in and see how much extra room there is. if Nikon & Sony can make small FF,then of course Pentax can as well..K5/K3 design is perfect,maybe a bit bigger but still smaller than D610..and with 36MP sensor

11-26-2013, 11:41 PM - 1 Like	#78
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by normhead I wonder if they could put an FF sensor into a K-3 body. I should look in and see how much extra room there is. Yes it can. There are many working prototypes. Size and performance aren’t the issue. But the right moment, right price and right enticement are. Ricoh Imaging is well aware the public will judge their first FF product and put in under a microscope to find faults, be more critical of it than of any other FF product by other manufacturers.

11-27-2013, 12:55 AM	#79
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by DogLover I think this is absolutely the most likely product. A FF K-3. Everything the same except the sensor. Requires the least investment into R&D, tooling, etc. Ironically, this is also exactly what I hope it turns out to be. Or put in an APS-H sensor and make me happy

11-27-2013, 12:57 AM	#80
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Uluru Yes it can. There are many working prototypes. I believe it is possible to put an FF sensor in a K-3 too. What I'm interested in, is in the "many working prototypes"-part. Do you have any sources whatsoever? My credo always is: if I can't see, touch it or hear it, it's probably not there. Working prototype would have leaked.

11-27-2013, 01:28 AM	#81
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by DogLover I agree that it seems really unlikely to happen that soon, though a Pentax rep at a trade show in Sweden (I think) said to look for "big things" in Q1 2014. Doesn't necessarily mean FF, obviously. My guess (and it's purely a guess) would be Q2 or Q3. Actually two Pentax rep said it multiple times and I have no reason to distrust them. The years before have been a bit dead when it came to Pentax at the Trade Show.

11-27-2013, 09:10 AM	#82
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Clavius I believe it is possible to put an FF sensor in a K-3 too. What I'm interested in, is in the "many working prototypes"-part. Do you have any sources whatsoever? My credo always is: if I can't see, touch it or hear it, it's probably not there. Working prototype would have leaked. We saw the K-3, what, a month before release or so?

11-27-2013, 10:59 AM	#83
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by ElJamoquio We saw the K-3, what, a month before release or so? Yes, but that is not a reason to state as a fact that there are "numerous working prototypes" of a Pentax FF DSLR.

11-27-2013, 11:04 AM	#84
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Looking in the K-3 or K-5, that placement of the SDM contacts is a serious issue for the mirror in an FF. I'm guessing if they do use the K-5 body, it will be screw drive only.Which would make sense, when the US guy retired, did he not mention that he'd accepted 3 screw drive FF lenses as a parting gift?

11-27-2013, 11:23 AM	#85
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by normhead Looking in the K-3 or K-5, that placement of the SDM contacts is a serious issue for the mirror in an FF. I'm guessing if they do use the K-5 body, it will be screw drive only.Which would make sense, when the US guy retired, did he not mention that he'd accepted 3 screw drive FF lenses as a parting gift? The power zoom contacts that are used for SDM came in the film days, so it should not be much of a problem for a FF DSLR.

11-27-2013, 11:36 AM	#86
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	My Sigma 70-200 2.8 is a FF lense and has these contacts.

11-27-2013, 02:57 PM	#87
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Clavius I believe it is possible to put an FF sensor in a K-3 too. What I'm interested in, is in the "many working prototypes"-part. Do you have any sources whatsoever? My credo always is: if I can't see, touch it or hear it, it's probably not there. Working prototype would have leaked. Yes, numerous. When a K-5 body was used as a starting point, it helped establish all the requirements needed for all the changes necessary that a K-5 class camera can be used as an FF cradle. For example, a complete mirror mechanism and shutter redesigns, implemented now in K-3 and shared in the future FF DSLR. That is what I got indadvertedly and concluded from my contacts (they mentioned “improvements on K-5”). What prompts me believe contacts were right is that I see a persistent Pentax strategy of sharing development cost, reusing of concepts as much as possible, improving on details and lowering the risk to an absolute minimum. But I cannot comment on types of all new designs and all new concepts other than a typical DSLR, nor I have heard that anyone has confirmed anything about such alternatives. So I take all LX-D, A-mount, etc. as unverifiable wishy-washy rumours. Would I like to see an LX-D? Of course, but at this stage, it should be regarded as fiction.

11-28-2013, 03:05 PM	#88
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Fogel70 The power zoom contacts that are used for SDM came in the film days, so it should not be much of a problem for a FF DSLR. Actually, there were no SDM lenses until quite a bit after the film days as far as I know. Are their film cameras that can use SDM lenses? ALl F lenses were screw drive. Originally posted by mamethot My Sigma 70-200 2.8 is a FF lense and has these contacts. Have you tried your 70-200 on a film body? It could still be that adding the SDM contacts works on APS-c but not on FF. Hey I don't know for sure, maybe SDM is FF compatible. Looking at an SF1, compared to a K-5 it does look like it could be done. Just thinking out loud here.

11-28-2013, 03:31 PM	#89
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by normhead Actually, there were no SDM lenses until quite a bit after the film days as far as I know. Are their film cameras that can use SDM lenses? ALl F lenses were screw drive. I think he meant only that the power zoom contacts were present on film cameras and thus should not be in the way of a FF mirror. Not that SDM itself would work on a film camera. I'm not sure what would happen if you put an SDM lens on a film camera with powerzoom contacts. I guess the best result would be "nothing" and the worst would be a fried lens. But surely Pentax would have thought of the possibility and made it so it would not damage the lens.........

11-28-2013, 04:17 PM	#90
RuiC Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lisboa - The best destination in Europe Posts: 633	Originally posted by normhead Looking in the K-3 or K-5, that placement of the SDM contacts is a serious issue for the mirror in an FF. I'm guessing if they do use the K-5 body, it will be screw drive only.Which would make sense, when the US guy retired, did he not mention that he'd accepted 3 screw drive FF lenses as a parting gift? Originally posted by Fogel70 The power zoom contacts that are used for SDM came in the film days, so it should not be much of a problem for a FF DSLR. Originally posted by normhead Actually, there were no SDM lenses until quite a bit after the film days as far as I know. Are their film cameras that can use SDM lenses? ALl F lenses were screw drive. Have you tried your 70-200 on a film body? It could still be that adding the SDM contacts works on APS-c but not on FF. Hey I don't know for sure, maybe SDM is FF compatible. Looking at an SF1, compared to a K-5 it does look like it could be done. Just thinking out loud here. That placement of the SDM contacts is NOT a serious issue for the mirror in an FF body just because they are a heritage from the film bodies. They used those contacts already!