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12-21-2013, 09:44 AM - 2 Likes   #31
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Carpe diem, Pentax!

QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Lots to lose, little to gain. Worse, if the LX-D or K-1 isn't at least as good as the Canon and Nikon (and Sony) price-range competition, everything to lose.
Stick with what you do best. The premimum APS-C market is there for the taking. Pick your fights well.
JMO,
Ron
Just the contrary: little to loose and much to gain. IMHO times have never been better for Pentax to make some waves and attract disgruntled enthusiasts from other brands.

Have you noticed that the Pentax K3 is leading the polls over on dp review for dslr camera of the year by a wide margin? Something tells me those are not all Pentaxians but also a good many Canon and Nikon users flipping the bird to their manufacturer of choice.

Have you noticed the amount of disappointment the Nikon Df is generating? There are many reasons for this, but one recurring theme I read in the forums is that it doesn't deliver on the promise of "pure photography" that Nikon's ad campaign held out. Too much DSLR, not enough SLR.

And my the perennial favorite. Modern DSLRs surpass film cameras in every respect except one: the view finder.

Now add to this the fact that Pentax currently has only a sparse offering of ff lenses and it seems to me that the way forward is to make a virtue out of necessity and create a camera that is squarely targeted at the enthusiast with a shelf full of legacy primes irrespective of brand.

Pentax should build a solid manual focus only ff camera. With the best interchangeable OVF in the industry. One capable of taking the classic split image / micro prism, a waist level finder (no one uses them anymore - but people will love it and it costs next to nothing to manufacture) and an electronic view finder. Yes, sooner or later Pentax will have to come to terms with the EVF. They neglectet that on the K01 and the Q, but it can't be avoided forever. Use this camera to practice.

The camera needs a mirror obviously, but the K mount's flange focal distance means that canon, minolta, sony, olympus om etc lenses won't fit.
Why not build a (near) universal mount with a flange focal distance around 40mm and an attachment for the specific mount required.

Finally the question of new lenses. It seems to me that Pentax' forte has been the limited primes for years and that is the answer. Simply forget about ff zooms for the moment.

So who is the target audience? Older, affluent enthusiasts who remember the joys of manual focus but will obviously not go back to film.
It's not a camera for everyone, but then, no camera is. Especially not ff. But such a camera would have a solid niche, a broad appeal and without anything from live view to video would not cost that much in r&d $.

QuoteOriginally posted by rbefly Quote
Pick your fights well.
Pick your fights well indeed. Or refuse to engage in battle but outflank your opponent and come out ahead.
Carpe diem Pentax!

Just my $0.02

12-21-2013, 10:06 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Anyone who wasn't deluding themselves. Sony sold 200% of their expected preorders, and there were lines out the door to get them in Korea. The numbers don't compete with Canon or Nikon's sales of their combined amateur/midrange/professional product lines, but it's really, really, really good for a brand new system with no existing mindshare or marketshare. .
I seem to recall the PEN and OM-D were very popular for a while as well. The Fuji X100 had a waiting list at $1200...
12-21-2013, 10:57 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
...
Have you noticed the amount of disappointment the Nikon Df is generating? There are many reasons for this, but one recurring theme I read in the forums is that it doesn't deliver on the promise of "pure photography" that Nikon's ad campaign held out. Too much DSLR, not enough SLR.
I had an opportunity to shoot the Df for a few days. Yes, not much different than a DSLR. Nikon over hyped the old-school film thing for sure. It is really a smaller FF DSLR for Nikon with backward compatibility for Nikon's legacy glass.

But I liked the camera a lot. I assigned one of the function buttons to go directly to auto ISO in the "My Menu" and shot that mostly in aperture priority. I didn't touch the dials on top much at all. I'd definitely grab the Df to go out shooting candid and as a walking around camera over my D800 any day. The light body feels way better with f1.8G lenses instead of the heavier f1.4G lens if you are shooting modern glass. One exception was the new 58/1.4G lens which is pretty light. Lenses the size/weight of the Sigma 35/1.4 Art are about as much as you'd want to put on the camera for casual walking around, I found.
12-21-2013, 11:17 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I had an opportunity to shoot the Df for a few days. Yes, not much different than a DSLR. Nikon over hyped the old-school film thing for sure. It is really a smaller FF DSLR for Nikon with backward compatibility for Nikon's legacy glass.

But I liked the camera a lot. I assigned one of the function buttons to go directly to auto ISO in the "My Menu" and shot that mostly in aperture priority. I didn't touch the dials on top much at all. I'd definitely grab the Df to go out shooting candid and as a walking around camera over my D800 any day. The light body feels way better with f1.8G lenses instead of the heavier f1.4G lens if you are shooting modern glass. One exception was the new 58/1.4G lens which is pretty light. Lenses the size/weight of the Sigma 35/1.4 Art are about as much as you'd want to put on the camera for casual walking around, I found.
Absolutely and I'm not knocking any manufacturer or their products. Just trying to find a niche for Pentax that makes sense - at least to me ;-)

12-21-2013, 11:58 AM - 1 Like   #35
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So Pentax can't compete in the lens quantity department, so lets try a new approach. Third parties make lenses for the main camera manufactures, Pentax could make bodies for the Canikon lenses. Sony A7/r accepts every bodies lenses, so this isn't uncharted territory. We all know that Pentax makes the best camera bodies, so offer them in a K,F and EF mounts. Instant lens availability. I think that the patents on these lens mounts have expired by now. Nikon F 1959, Canon EF 1987 etc. I love this Idea and the EF mount will accept adapters for many other mounts. Thats why I use a Canon 5D FF for my Legacy glass.
12-21-2013, 12:44 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big Dave Quote
So Pentax can't compete in the lens quantity department, so lets try a new approach. Third parties make lenses for the main camera manufactures, Pentax could make bodies for the Canikon lenses. Sony A7/r accepts every bodies lenses, so this isn't uncharted territory. We all know that Pentax makes the best camera bodies, so offer them in a K,F and EF mounts. Instant lens availability. I think that the patents on these lens mounts have expired by now. Nikon F 1959, Canon EF 1987 etc. I love this Idea and the EF mount will accept adapters for many other mounts. Thats why I use a Canon 5D FF for my Legacy glass.
Thats the idea, but unlike Sony it would feature a dual option of ovf / evf. Anyway, if Pentax doesn't build this I'm convinced someone will. Perhaps Cosina / Voigtländer. They just might be cray enough to do it!
12-23-2013, 06:04 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big Dave Quote
So Pentax can't compete in the lens quantity department, so lets try a new approach. Third parties make lenses for the main camera manufactures, Pentax could make bodies for the Canikon lenses. Sony A7/r accepts every bodies lenses, so this isn't uncharted territory. We all know that Pentax makes the best camera bodies, so offer them in a K,F and EF mounts. Instant lens availability. I think that the patents on these lens mounts have expired by now. Nikon F 1959, Canon EF 1987 etc. I love this Idea and the EF mount will accept adapters for many other mounts. Thats why I use a Canon 5D FF for my Legacy glass.
Yes, this would be awesome, it would be truly fantastic if they were to include a FF version too. I use a 1dsmkII for Legacy glass and the full frame aspect really makes the lenses more enjoyable to use.
I'll just keep on hoping and playing
12-26-2013, 06:54 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
IMHO times have never been better for Pentax to make some waves and attract disgruntled enthusiasts from other brands...Pentax should build a solid manual focus only ff camera. With the best interchangeable OVF in the industry. One capable of taking the classic split image / micro prism, a waist level finder (no one uses them anymore - but people will love it and it costs next to nothing to manufacture) and an electronic view finder. Yes, sooner or later Pentax will have to come to terms with the EVF. They neglectet that on the K01 and the Q, but it can't be avoided forever. Use this camera to practice....Carpe diem Pentax!
The best idea I have heard thus far.

12-30-2013, 06:59 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
Have you noticed the amount of disappointment the Nikon Df is generating? There are many reasons for this, but one recurring theme I read in the forums is that it doesn't deliver on the promise of "pure photography" that Nikon's ad campaign held out. Too much DSLR, not enough SLR.
The DF does look really very cool though. No doubt about it. And I think the average Pentaxian would love to be able to complain about a K-mount version of such a machine. Actually, if it was a Pentax DF, it would probably be praised into heaven.


QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
a waist level finder (no one uses them anymore - but people will love it and it costs next to nothing to manufacture)
A waist level finder?! That's like an articulating LCD screen flipped upwards, but only less bright, correct?


QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
The camera needs a mirror obviously,
Obviously! ...But can you fill me in anyway? On my MILCs I'm missing the mirrors like a bad toothache.


QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
Finally the question of new lenses. It seems to me that Pentax' forte has been the limited primes for years and that is the answer. Simply forget about ff zooms for the moment.
Can't agree more. I love primes. Currently Pentax is all about zooms for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with the global economy and expecting people to have less money for seperate high IQ primes?
12-31-2013, 10:19 AM   #40
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Well on the MILC's I have used, I do miss the mirrors when I am out in bright light and need critical focus.
01-06-2014, 06:48 AM   #41
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On the same theme as Eyeswideshut, Build an affordable dslr alternative to the Leica Monochrom. ditch the bayer filters, let the resolution go through the roof, fully k-mount compatible, tune the sensor for B&W only.

meh, I'm dreaming, I know.
01-08-2014, 04:09 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
A waist level finder?! That's like an articulating LCD screen flipped upwards, but only less bright, correct?
Yes. Less bright and smaller - however, optical rather than electronic. But like I said, not that important.

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Obviously! ...But can you fill me in anyway? On my MILCs I'm missing the mirrors like a bad toothache.
"Obvious" only because I'm talking about a single lens reflex camera and they tend to have mirrors
Also, Sony just released two ff MILCs with the A7/R, so that niche is filled. On the other hand Canon and Nikon have the full format DSLR segment covered from "entry level" all the way up to the most "professional" DSLRs available today. Therefore, I'm trying to sketch a potential Pentax camera that would offer something genuinely new to the market, a ff DSLR stripped of everything that interferes with manual focusing.
I admire the way Leica took the Rangefinder from film to digital without sacrificing the sleek lines that can only be considered classic. Now that is something no one has done for the DSLR yet. To me, Nikon's Df completely fails in the attempt. It is is plump, baroque and overladen. I'm convinced Pentax could do better!
01-08-2014, 04:33 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
I'm trying to sketch a potential Pentax camera that would offer something genuinely new to the market,
Well, every manufacturer but Pentax seems to read this forum. All the holes in the market that are mentioned here, and that seem to be tailor-made for Pentax, always get plugged by others instead.
01-08-2014, 05:39 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Well, every manufacturer but Pentax seems to read this forum. All the holes in the market that are mentioned here, and that seem to be tailor-made for Pentax, always get plugged by others instead.
Sad and true. But if Pentax doesn't read here, maybe Cosina Voigtländer will. They have shown a remarkable ability to create markets in niches that no one else thought possible. The whole rangefinder revival owes a lot to them. They supply a steady demand for manual focus lenses that other manufacturers simply ignore, and they have even manufactured at least one digital camera (for Epson) already.
So I continue to hope!
01-09-2014, 07:43 PM   #45
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I agree with MECROX - no FF needed for Pentax because the big boys are too entrenched. Instead, while Canikony shifts their resources to FF, Pentax moves in to capture the much larger APS-c market with advances in technology making the image quality almost equal in a smaller form. Lets face it - the pixel counts are just too damn high already! .... but what is truly amazing in terms of evolutionary changes is ISO sensitivity. If we can get to nearly noiseless ISO 6400 - f2.8 zooms and f1.4 primes become irrelevant! (almost) .....especially if all lenses get automatic IS
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