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11-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
asahi man said: "And we should see the 35mm Pentax in autumn 2014"

two days before that, he said: "Pentax will stay with APS-C,645 and maybe 35mm"

maybe vs. autumn 2014 doesn't engender confidence.

I started buying canon prosumer video cameras in '93 or '94... l1, l2, xl1, xl1s, etc... averaging $3,500 each time.

it was frustrating, because canon kept releasing these tiny upgrades to the new models, sort of similar to what pentax does... and like pentax, canon typically didn't do anything revolutionary, they let other people, like Panasonic, be the first.

now sony, of all companies, has really stepped up to the plate... their platform is far from complete, but it's an open platform of sorts, which minimizes the investment and the risk.

historically, pentax would never take a big step like that... even if a ff pentax shows up, it would probably have the pentax flash and pentax lens mounts on it.

tough call.
Hey man,

I think the problem was that you belong to the "early adopter" group... Technology advances very fast, even more so now in this era... Take a look around and notice that it just takes 6 months, sometimes lesser, for an "improved" product to come.. Gone are the days when any piece of gear was made to last a year or two before the next "improvement" came along..

Taking that into account, it's quite simple actually to see that most of Pentax products recently was just half-baked to for us to be beta testers... You could take pride in that or you could choose to observe and wait it out... Look at how each Pentax product that was released from the K5ii/S and K30, including Q system, includes small steps of "new" technology(for Pentax).

Now look at the K3 and do you not see EVERYTHING that was done? Except of course for the mirrorless factor.
The K3 is the "complete" product from 2 years(i believe) of half-baked products; hence it is the true flagship.

Looking at that now, you can bet that the FF will just be more or less the same and perhaps even for the 645Dii...

Now, before you go and buy the next newest thing, sit down, and observe what are the changes made... Is it worth it for you or not?
e.g. K5 --> K5ii (better AF sensor? That's all? You mean that's suppose to be the "new" flagship? Poooh! Rubbish...)

11-18-2013, 09:27 PM - 1 Like   #32
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reason and logic

It seems there are three trains of thought that have been expressed in this thread. Some folks understand and or share the desire for a FF camera. Others consider it silly to move to Sony due to the impending release of a Pentax FF(????). Others think there is malice in my initial post or are offended thinking I am abandoning Pentax. Not that it would matter but I am keeping my pantax gear that is one of the main reasons I am buying the A7R. I think the Sony is the camera Pentax would/should have produced and I am disappointed they did not.

The list below is some of what I based my decision to purchase the A7R rather than the k-3 or continue to wait for a FF Pentax:
1. The Sony seems to be a bargain (even at MSRP) for what it is and what the initial reviews indicate from a performance & innovation perspective.
2. I don’t have to reinvest in glass. I own some of the best Pentax FF glass ever produced and can use all but one lens (WR 100 macro) on the Sony A7r. No worries I own the non WR version of that lens also. On the same topic I can use just about any brand lens on the A7R. So if I want to purchase a modern FF lens I can. I currently have no desire for new glass but that might change.
3. The cost of a k-3 will drop significantly in 5 months to a year. I may consider buying one then for marco & long glass use. It is a nice camera but not worth MSRP just like the k-01. I don’t think the Sony will lose value as quickly. Another reason to skip the k-3 is that I own 4 Pentax APSC cameras at this time & don’t need another..
4. Camera bodies are disposable. I expect to replace the Sony in two years due to advancements in technology. It may be replaced with a Pentax FF. Who knows?
5. Waiting for Pentax to produce a FF is no longer an option. I don’t see any way for them to gain market share at this point. If Pentax sees it this way it does not make any business sense to produce a FF.

I took the time to post this for those that have indicated that my decision is driven by desperation.
My decision is based in reason and logic. It is based on my needs yours may differ.

Pretending you know what Pentax will release & when .... sounds a bit desperate to me.

From what I have read the A7R is not a do it all camera. I think the Sony FF and a Pentax APSC will serve my needs best over the next few years.

Good Luck!

Last edited by Parallax; 11-19-2013 at 09:07 AM.
11-18-2013, 11:06 PM   #33
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Why can't you use the DFA? No aperture? Some of the converters allow it, generally/usually.
11-19-2013, 01:03 AM   #34
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The problem is that a not-so-well-informed poster is trying to censor out "full frame" discussions, because all we should talk about it is how to buy Sony cameras.
Few considerations:
- Pentax did talk about working on a "full frame" recently (2012), the information being posted and mentioned quite a few times in this forum. It's more likely now than it ever was under Hoya.
- "full frame" talk cannot be stopped, so it's better to be grouped into a section than be spread all over the forum.
- the K-3 is an amazing camera, competitively priced.
- some people just won't buy Sony cameras.
- there is a section called "Non-Pentax Cameras", and that's the place for Sony talk.
- the feeling is not one of desperation, but anticipation. It's the anti-Pentax brigade who's getting desperate and would become even more so in the next year.

11-19-2013, 01:23 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by docucap Quote
It seems there are three trains of thought that have been expressed in this thread. Some folks understand and or share the desire for a FF camera. Others consider it silly to move to Sony due to the impending release of a Pentax FF(????). Others think there is malice in my initial post or are offended thinking I am abandoning Pentax. Not that it would matter but I am keeping my pantax gear that is one of the main reasons I am buying the A7R. I think the Sony is the camera Pentax would/should have produced and I am disappointed they did not.

The list below is some of what I based my decision to purchase the A7R rather than the k-3 or continue to wait for a FF Pentax:
1. The Sony seems to be a bargain (even at MSRP) for what it is and what the initial reviews indicate from a performance & innovation perspective.
2. I donít have to reinvest in glass. I own some of the best Pentax FF glass ever produced and can use all but one lens (WR 100 macro) on the Sony A7r. No worries I own the non WR version of that lens also. On the same topic I can use just about any brand lens on the A7R. So if I want to purchase a modern FF lens I can. I currently have no desire for new glass but that might change.
3. The cost of a k-3 will drop significantly in 5 months to a year. I may consider buying one then for marco & long glass use. It is a nice camera but not worth MSRP just like the k-01. I donít think the Sony will lose value as quickly. Another reason to skip the k-3 is that I own 4 Pentax APSC cameras at this time & donít need another..
4. Camera bodies are disposable. I expect to replace the Sony in two years due to advancements in technology. It may be replaced with a Pentax FF. Who knows?
5. Waiting for Pentax to produce a FF is no longer an option. I donít see any way for them to gain market share at this point. If Pentax sees it this way it does not make any business sense to produce a FF.

I took the time to post this for those that have indicated that my decision is driven by desperation.
My decision is based in reason and logic. It is based on my needs yours may differ.

Pretending you know what Pentax will release & when .... sounds a bit desperate to me.

From what I have read the A7R is not a do it all camera. I think the Sony FF and a Pentax APSC will serve my needs best over the next few years.

Good Luck!
Yup!

The ability to use all manner of legendary lenses from different manufacturers across the vintages is what really interests me. To be able to use Pentax K and Minolta and Nikkor and Contax G and Canon and M42 and Leica and maybe even Konica all on the same body is, I think, a revolution for those who, like me, really appreciate the old full frame glass.

Pro-photog friends have told me they've never used lenses or bodies with optical stabilisation, never been an issue.

I want to try an A7r first before buying, just to check the EVF quality to see how this may impact on manual focusing.
11-19-2013, 07:58 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by docucap Quote
Pentax indicates through its lens road-map that there will be no FF.
I think your other points are valid...but regarding the statement above, I HIGHLY doubt Ricoh would tip their hand by putting FF lenses on a roadmap without a FF camera already released. What if they have a FF camera in pre-production and they decide, for whatever reason not to release it (not right market conditions, they cant sell it at the price point they want, it doesnt live up to their standard etc)? They would have a ton of egg on their face if they had those lenses on their roadmap.
11-19-2013, 08:09 AM   #37
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I'm sure they have "full frame" lenses on some roadmap
11-19-2013, 08:16 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by docucap Quote
Pretending you know what Pentax will release & when .... sounds a bit desperate to me.
As does pretending to know what they won't release.

11-19-2013, 08:19 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I think your other points are valid...but regarding the statement above, I HIGHLY doubt Ricoh would tip their hand by putting FF lenses on a roadmap without a FF camera already released. What if they have a FF camera in pre-production and they decide, for whatever reason not to release it (not right market conditions, they cant sell it at the price point they want, it doesnt live up to their standard etc)? They would have a ton of egg on their face if they had those lenses on their roadmap.
Marketing DFA lenses prior to releaseing a Digital Pentax FF would cause just as little problems now as it did in the past. The DFA 100 and DFA 50 didn't cause any riots either. I think it would only reaffirm their statement of wanting to develope such a camera to the userbase.
11-19-2013, 08:34 AM   #40
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Look . . . it's good at video too!

Sony A7 & A7R Hands-On Field Test - YouTube

I still enjoy my K-5 IIs, but I can pick up the A7r here in Thailand for around the same price as a K-3, it's also much easier to find and ready to order. I still can't find a vendor for the K-3 here even though there's a few sites quoting prices, no supply.

Throw in a PK and an M42 adapter and we're away!
11-21-2013, 10:48 AM   #41
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In the past I upgraded from a Sony DSLR to a Sony electronic viewfinder (efv) DSLT and then had to switch systems to a Pentax DSLR because the efv was definitely a step down from having a mirror box, and Sony has completely abandoned all optical viewfinders leaving me no choice but to go with the only other in body camera stabilization company that still uses optical viewfinders. I absolutely hated the efv tech due to the fact it hogs battery, gives you a laggy, sub-par image to look at, and was even more washed out when outside in bright light. Many will argue photography is all about the final image, but I also believe the experience and ease of obtaining that image is important too, which is where Pentax excels and Sony did not.
11-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #42
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I have had a lot of my Pentax glass adapted for my Canon 6D. And I love it! Though the A 50 1.2 on FF digital had way to much CA for my taste. But I love my M 35 F2 and M 50 1.7.
Canon 6D with M 50 1.7
11-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by docucap Quote
From everything I read it is a ground breaking camera and will serve my FF needs well. I would rather Pentax but they have left the FF game to other producers.
There's a lot I like about Pentax, but the A7R is awfully tempting. I did eventually succumb to the NEX-6 and picked up a Lens Turbo for a pseudo-FF experience. Boy has it changed my perspective... and believe me, I never thought it would. I very much like how the camera meters normally and in real time, as opposed to the clunky green button procedure that Pentax keeps making us use in all their DSLRs.

I would have really liked it, however, if Sony had a way to allow chuckleheads like me who are anal retentive about having focal length or lens info in the EXIF to be able to input that information before the shot, similar to the "input focal length" precedure on my K30. Do you know if the A7/R has addressed this?
11-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #44
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I wouldn't expect a reply. If you look at the OP's member status you'll see that won't be re-joining the discussion.
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