Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-16-2014, 06:40 AM   #166
Senior Member




Join Date: Jun 2012
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 138
QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
A moot point but back in the film days, Nikon made a very water resistant interchangeable lens, 35mm camera with ever better weather resistance than today's DSLRs by an order of magnitude. The Nikonos. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone even made one before the Nikonos too.
Jacques-Yves Cousteau, maybe?

( See Calypso (camera) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

01-16-2014, 09:00 AM   #167
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,243
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I have to admit that all this re-iteration of the same opinions is getting tedious at best. What would be fun to hear though, before this thread is abandoned, is your best guess as to the FF percentage of ILC sales for 2014. I believe in 2013, the FF cameras owned 9 percent of unit sales - is that right?

I predict that for 2014, that number will be 15 percent?

Any other risk takers out there who will venture a sales percent for 2014?
I can't imagine world wide that the number will be over 10 percent. A lot of folks are "coming on line" in Asia, but they don't have the incomes necessarily to buy full frame.

The other issue is that the biggest sellers tend to be lower end products. What number of K50s does Pentax sell for every K3 sold? I have no idea, but certainly the higher the price on an item, the less likely it is to be a huge seller.
01-16-2014, 10:38 AM   #168
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eureka, CA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,977
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
We did compare the K-5 + 16-50 to the D600 + 24-85. The Nikon combo is much sharper, much better colors
The Nikkor 24-85 may be sharper on FF (although "much" sharper sounds to me like an exaggeration), but there's no way it has "much better colors" than the DA* 16-50. The DA* 16-50 has some of the best color rendition I've seen in any standard zoom lens. And better microcontrast than the 24-85 as well. I'm pretty sure I could bet better images out of the K-5 + 16-50 combo, despite the resolution advantage of the FF combo. There is far more to IQ than mere resolution.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
What would be fun to hear though, before this thread is abandoned, is your best guess as to the FF percentage of ILC sales for 2014. I believe in 2013, the FF cameras owned 9 percent of unit sales - is that right?
I'd say 10.5%. The price of FF glass combined with high consumer debt will limit the number of consumers who can move up to FF.

Incidentally, SLR FF is going to stay around for the same reason that SLR APS-C is going to stay around: the glass. Too many consumers have invested too much money in APS-C and FF glass for either of these formats to go away soon.
01-16-2014, 11:12 AM   #169
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
The Nikkor 24-85 may be sharper on FF (although "much" sharper sounds to me like an exaggeration), but there's no way it has "much better colors" than the DA* 16-50. The DA* 16-50 has some of the best color rendition I've seen in any standard zoom lens. And better microcontrast than the 24-85 as well. I'm pretty sure I could bet better images out of the K-5 + 16-50 combo, despite the resolution advantage of the FF combo. There is far more to IQ than mere resolution.
I disagree on all points except the last sentence. I think the 15 and the 31 have great colors and this silly 'kit zoom' lens is better IMO. I'm not alone, Mrs. ElJamoquio steals the Nikon and won't give it back.



QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
price of FF glass
...is cheaper!

01-16-2014, 11:42 AM   #170
Banned




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Millstone,NJ
Posts: 6,491
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I can't imagine world wide that the number will be over 10 percent. A lot of folks are "coming on line" in Asia, but they don't have the incomes necessarily to buy full frame.

The other issue is that the biggest sellers tend to be lower end products. What number of K50s does Pentax sell for every K3 sold? I have no idea, but certainly the higher the price on an item, the less likely it is to be a huge seller.
What number of K50s does Pentax sell for every 645D sold ?
01-16-2014, 11:50 AM - 1 Like   #171
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,243
QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
What number of K50s does Pentax sell for every 645D sold ?
A lot. Is that the answer you wanted?

The 645D never sold more than a few thousand units a year and it is now well beyond the end of its production cycle. However, even with an appropriate replacement, medium format is a very niche market. It is a safe market though. Pentax can release a 645D MK II with same auto focus system as K3, same image processor as K3, new sensor, and 4 fps and sell the camera for 10,000 dollars. And those who are interested in it won't blink and will talk about what a deal it is compared to the other medium format digital options.
01-16-2014, 12:11 PM   #172
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,430
QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
What number of K50s does Pentax sell for every 645D sold ?
The real question I think should be what is the ratio of 645D IR / K50

Just hazarding a speculative guess here - 1:3,000 = 645D:K50 / year, but Rondec is right - the answer is, 'a lot.'
01-16-2014, 12:23 PM   #173
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
What's the ratio of revenue? Profit?

I hope it's good (and has to be FAR better than units)... because the 645 is a great thing...

Could Pentax be making $2-3k per 645? Seems likely?

Could Pentax be making $20-50 per K-50?

01-16-2014, 01:20 PM   #174
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,243
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
What's the ratio of revenue? Profit?

I hope it's good (and has to be FAR better than units)... because the 645 is a great thing...

Could Pentax be making $2-3k per 645? Seems likely?

Could Pentax be making $20-50 per K-50?
I just don't think there is a lot of cost for the 645D. R and D was spread between the K5 and 645D, since many components were shared. Biggest cost is the sensor, which is what it is. I would guess if they are selling the camera for 7000, that they are clearing 4000 per camera at this point.

As to the K-50, I would bet that there is more profit in one than that. More like 100 dollars shared with retailers.
01-16-2014, 02:31 PM   #175
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I just don't think there is a lot of cost for the 645D. R and D was spread between the K5 and 645D, since many components were shared. Biggest cost is the sensor, which is what it is. I would guess if they are selling the camera for 7000, that they are clearing 4000 per camera at this point.
But what does a retailer pay? Because right now you buy a 645D for $7k? $6k? So if they're making $4k then $3k has to pay for both the retailer and the parts, and that doesn't seem like enough to me, but who knows.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
As to the K-50, I would bet that there is more profit in one than that. More like 100 dollars shared with retailers.
Dunno, I would think the retailers would need to get at least $100 and more like $200? Surely there's a camera store employee here that can fill us in on what gross margin is on entry level cameras and pro cameras...
01-16-2014, 03:31 PM   #176
Banned




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Millstone,NJ
Posts: 6,491
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
A lot. Is that the answer you wanted?

The 645D never sold more than a few thousand units a year and it is now well beyond the end of its production cycle. However, even with an appropriate replacement, medium format is a very niche market. It is a safe market though. Pentax can release a 645D MK II with same auto focus system as K3, same image processor as K3, new sensor, and 4 fps and sell the camera for 10,000 dollars. And those who are interested in it won't blink and will talk about what a deal it is compared to the other medium format digital options.
But by the time the 645D MK II comes out there will be full frame cameras with over 50mp for a fraction of the price. So what would be the better deal ?
01-16-2014, 03:48 PM   #177
Ash
Community Manager
Loyal Site Supporter
Ash's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,695
The 645D MkII will surely have more megapixels than what the current FF offerings will boast of. The larger the format, the more opportunity for higher resolution based on the available sensor technology with no compromise to IQ. That isn't the argument here.

If it's about whether FF has a future, it's quite clear it has, despite all the points made previously. The fact that sensor technology has managed to squeeze such quality out of smaller and smaller sensors does not negate the utility of the larger formats. It's only that the target audience for the cameras for each format through time will change.
01-16-2014, 03:49 PM   #178
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,243
QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
But by the time the 645D MK II comes out there will be full frame cameras with over 50mp for a fraction of the price. So what would be the better deal ?
Which is a better deal, a Pentax K3 with 24 megapixels, or a D4 with 16 megapixels? Now, remember how much money you would save going with the K3.
01-16-2014, 04:32 PM   #179
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,541
QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
But by the time the 645D MK II comes out there will be full frame cameras with over 50mp for a fraction of the price. So what would be the better deal ?
It is not the sensor alone, but the sensor plus the MF lenses and the overall photographic experience tied with both.
The sum is much greater than all parts.

That is the crucial point that non-photographers cannot comprehend or imagine what is the appeal about the digital MF.

I'd personally have the 645D variant with puny 16-20 megapickles MF-sized sensor and a bunch of 645 lenses than any FF with 100 megapickles.
01-16-2014, 04:47 PM   #180
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,103
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That is the crucial point that non-photographers cannot comprehend or imagine what is the appeal about the digital MF.
And a crucial point people who lust over the 645D just because it is MFD might be forgetting it is a camera that has a much narrower photographic scope than the more nimble and versatile DSLR ( eg sports, wildlife, convenience, etc). It becomes a question of what is the best image you will get for the type of shooting you will be doing. That answer may be MFD for some type of shooting and a FF or APS-C DSLR for others.

EDIT: For example. I can afford a 645D. I shoot a lot of medium format film today. So why don't I have a 645D for my digital solution? I just wouldn't use it enough is why. But I don't rule out tomorrow.

Last edited by tuco; 01-16-2014 at 05:04 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
24x36mm, activity, aps, cameras, dslrs, ff, full-frame, mike, pentax, photographer, professionals
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax K-5 will never die PedroCosta Pentax K-5 5 11-06-2013 04:06 PM
K01 on The Online Photographer isaacc7 Pentax K-01 26 06-22-2012 06:23 PM
Who will be the FIRST K 01 user on this forum ... except Adam! jpzk Pentax K-01 24 02-09-2012 08:39 PM
will my Pentax die?? qrsau Photographic Industry and Professionals 22 12-18-2011 05:41 PM
A Photographer Could Die Here jeffkpotter Post Your Photos! 22 10-14-2008 11:37 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:37 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top