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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
Voters: 663. You may not vote on this poll

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06-13-2014, 05:15 PM   #166
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yesssss.it took a long time....maybe a little bit to long...but now it works....

06-13-2014, 05:24 PM   #167
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Does the new FF work?

So what was your vote Asahi Man, 'Yes' or 'No' to the Photokina 2014 release for FF???
06-13-2014, 05:27 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
his words are vague and totally unbelievable under scrutiny
Awww, you are so harsh.
I like asahi man's oracular pronouncements and '...' implications. It adds mystery.

He's also been accurate enough, even if it sometimes takes time for the prophesized events to reveal themselves.
06-13-2014, 05:59 PM - 1 Like   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Does the new FF work?

So what was your vote Asahi Man, 'Yes' or 'No' to the Photokina 2014 release for FF???
Sorry,this i don´t know.
What i know is only,ff is a project again since 2011 and under Ricoh it is in development.
Look to the great K-3.
Last Photokina the Body was there,but not to see.
Pentax planed it to show,but Ricoh said No
Look to the 645D.
I saw 3 Prototypes,two of them full function bodys.
It needs years till we saw it in the shops,lots of changes and overhaulings,till 3 month before,99% of the Pentax Stuff did not know that the 645 is in Program.Than one year production run,after 9 month it goes to the offices with preproductions...so on and so on.....
Otherwise,i got the K20 in my hand month before anybody in the forums or magazines knows about.
There is never a standard rule with new stuff,my friend is testdriver for a sportscar company....same game....got a call and 3 hours later he is sitting in a black rocket on a trip trough norway in winter
So we have to wait,till today i have no 100%,but a nice trip to company next time...we will see than.
Hopefull regards

06-13-2014, 11:56 PM   #170
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The way some guys say "slap on a FF sensor on a K3 and get it out to the shelves" is unrealistic.
Product development, introduction and production does not happen like its baking a cake.

There are mechanicals/electronics to design and evaluate, reliability tests that take 1k, 2k, 3k hrs and such things all take time.
Tooling and assembly process to develop, try out and refine.
Vendors to works with, qualify and start up.
Everything has lead time.

Easily a 1yr cycle at the least.

I have hope Pentax will deliver.

Last edited by pinholecam; 06-14-2014 at 12:45 AM.
06-14-2014, 12:15 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
yesssss.it took a long time....maybe a little bit to long...but now it works....
Because Ricoh was not truly jumping the mountains to boost Pentax. Ricoh was interested to disassemble it, and develop Ricoh Imaging. But I hope they have had enough of restructuring, name changing, cabinet moving and vacuuming priorities in the last 3 years. Are they still moving around or they have finally finished it all in February?

Last edited by Uluru; 06-14-2014 at 12:23 AM.
06-14-2014, 12:31 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Thanks for your input. Next time could you please post so the rest of us can read it without going through Google Translate?


As to your comment, many photographers have found FF to be very useful. I believe it's far from a "publicity stunt." The ability to shoot indoors with poor lighting (not just outdoors "in the dark") is often important. Narrow DOF is also useful (granted, it gets overused sometimes - this is especially noticeable in some DSLR videos, such as interviews where a slight movement of the subject's head can become a little distracting).
Why must I write in English? Iám German and must your Posts translate by Google too ;-)
06-14-2014, 02:14 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rees Hennar Quote
Why must I write in English? Iám German and must your Posts translate by Google too ;-)
It's just a forum rule - for consistency, as I'm sure you realize.


So you really think FF cameras are more like publicity stunts than useful tools with genuine advantages?

06-14-2014, 10:15 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
We have been having good news for yeeeaaars already.

Despite others who want to cheer about this year *must* be the one, I am not buying Asahiman's assertion that this year's Pentax FF will be but a K-3 with a 35mm sensor in it. And that it will be on display. What that says, that it took engineering team 12 months to order a 35 mm sensor and deliver practically same K-3, but for extra $900, 12 months later, and under glass? Really?

I mean, gosh, I really cannot believe what people are willing to buy around here! I don't dismiss Asahiman's good intentions, but his words are vague and totally unbelievable under scrutiny because I think he knows nothing specific about the camera. The K-3 + 35mm sensor is a kind of layman logic that works underneath and can be extrapolated from the 645Z strategy too, but I think it is far from truth. And to which I have tried to explicate above in previous posts. And to conclude, the "K-3 + sensor" can mean just anything. It can be the form factor of K-3, but also, as in case of 645Z, the insides of the K-3 now inside a totally different body. Even the 645Z is "a K-3 plus an MF sensor", isn't it?

Ricoh Imaging has been keeping its audience in total dark regarding everything, and especially regarding any mention or disclosure about the FF. I believe not even their suppliers know what they work on. I'd rather suggest: don't even expect one, least that it looks or works like "this" or "that"; prepare to be disappointed like in all these years before — until proven otherwise.
You might be right, I hope you're wrong.
06-14-2014, 12:25 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Sorry,this i don´t know.
What i know is only,ff is a project again since 2011 and under Ricoh it is in development.
Look to the great K-3.
Last Photokina the Body was there,but not to see.
Pentax planed it to show,but Ricoh said No
Look to the 645D.
I saw 3 Prototypes,two of them full function bodys.
It needs years till we saw it in the shops,lots of changes and overhaulings,till 3 month before,99% of the Pentax Stuff did not know that the 645 is in Program.Than one year production run,after 9 month it goes to the offices with preproductions...so on and so on.....
Otherwise,i got the K20 in my hand month before anybody in the forums or magazines knows about.
There is never a standard rule with new stuff,my friend is testdriver for a sportscar company....same game....got a call and 3 hours later he is sitting in a black rocket on a trip trough norway in winter
So we have to wait,till today i have no 100%,but a nice trip to company next time...we will see than.
Hopefull regards
Were the 3 prototypes much different from each other?


Ok please keep us posted if you can. :c )
06-14-2014, 06:16 PM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
The way some guys say "slap on a FF sensor on a K3 and get it out to the shelves" is unrealistic.
Product development, introduction and production does not happen like its baking a cake.

There are mechanicals/electronics to design and evaluate, reliability tests that take 1k, 2k, 3k hrs and such things all take time.
Tooling and assembly process to develop, try out and refine.
Vendors to works with, qualify and start up.
Everything has lead time.

Easily a 1yr cycle at the least.

I have hope Pentax will deliver.
Agreed, it all takes time.

Pentax / Ricoh first publicly announced they were developing a FF capability in late 2012, and we're now 18 months down the track....so I would assume that whatever form they plan for it to take (whether K-3 body or not) is reasonably well defined by now.

I have been speculating in recent days on the possibility that the K-3 body will be utilised, initiated by Asahi Man's suggestive comments (who seems to be 'in the know' to an extent), followed by my own thinking that it would make very good business sense.

Either way, if using the K-3 body is their plan then I'm sure it wasn't arrived at yesterday. The 645Z utilises a lot of K-3 technology, and I'm sure that was decided a long time in advance as well...

Perhaps the use of the K-3 body is a total bum-steer, but I can just see the business sense in doing so, particularly with respect to many of the lead times you are referring to. Indeed, the use of the K-3 body would mitigate many of those lead times (and development costs) you are referring to...

Just thought I'd explain my thinking and logic, in case I am one of those "guys" you refer to.

My confidence in Pentax delivering something absolutely great has also grown immensely, and I'm sure I speak for many when I say that it's an exciting time to be a Pentaxian.

May our ranks grow and Pentaxians spread-forth with heads held high once again

Last edited by Poit; 06-14-2014 at 06:38 PM.
06-14-2014, 06:23 PM   #177
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Somewhere around here there was a rumor, back when the K-3 was announced, that a FF was coming in the same body.
06-14-2014, 06:38 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
What do you think if Pentax will bring a step like the K-5,but in Fullframe?
It would be wonderful.

I hope they will just do it, preferably this year, and be surprised how well it will do without some extra mind-blowing feature added. If Ricoh waits much longer till they have something super special, there is a danger that people will have stopped caring.

BTW, I wish people would stop bringing up Pentax's 645 system as being the true flagship or making it impossible for an FF to have 36MP, etc.

The 645 system is a completely different kettle of fish in terms of pricing, lens mount, and ideal application areas. It has no significance whatsoever for K-mount cameras, AFAIC. Competitor FF systems from Canon, Nikon, and Sony are ten times more relevant in discussions about the Pentax FF than the 645 system. To all intents and purposes the 645 system could be from Olympus; the fact that it is Ricoh-created does not make it on iota more relevant for a Pentax FF discussion, AFAIC.
06-14-2014, 06:51 PM   #179
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It's rough. The D600 and the 6D eliminated the chance of being the first APS-C-ish cost FF. The Sony A7 eliminated the chance to be the first FF on which a Pentax lens could be mounted easily.

Now they're down to things like 'first FF that mounts K-mount natively with AF', etc. I hope they have other things up their sleeve but don't think they do. Low cost would be nice but isn't really expected. I'm not sure what else they could give us (a faster horse?). Hey, wasn't there a curved-sensor Sony in the news today?

Pentax's UI is the best in DSLR land so there's that, but that's not likely not going to convince Canon or Nikon people to switch; without handling in person, perhaps.
06-14-2014, 06:57 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Imagine a wedding pro with a 645Z and his second shooter with a Pentax FF or two. What a shooting team that would be.

In the old film days, I actually knew of some guys doing weddings with a Pentax 645 and a couple of P30T's, so there are precedents.
I could certainly imagine a kit like that (although it's purely in the realm of imagination for my financial circumstances). Precedent or not, that would be absolutely AWESOME.

I do know there are wedding photographers out there who could afford it....

---------- Post added 06-15-14 at 12:06 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Somewhere around here there was a rumor, back when the K-3 was announced, that a FF was coming in the same body.
I'm not sure if others mentioned it as well, but Asahi Man has been alluding to that (as well as 24MP) since October last year.

If you read all of his posts at once (click on the 'user posts' number), it actually makes for very interesting reading.
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