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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
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06-17-2014, 04:54 PM   #226
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Sure, a 70-200mm-like lens is on the roadmap. But where is a standard zoom lens?

06-17-2014, 04:58 PM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
Sure, a 70-200mm-like lens is on the roadmap. But where is a standard zoom lens?

I think the green line will change color, personally. No way they introduce a full frame without a standard zoom. The only question is what aperture they'd select. I hope for F/2.8 but expect F/4.
06-17-2014, 05:11 PM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
Sure, a 70-200mm-like lens is on the roadmap. But where is a standard zoom lens?
That is one more reason I take all 2014 FF rumours and alleged prophesies with a spoonful of salt.
06-17-2014, 05:31 PM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That is one more reason I take all 2014 FF rumours and alleged prophesies with a spoonful of salt.
I have no idea whether you're for or against Pentax FF. I'm very skeptical of Pentax getting FF out as I wrote in another thread. The 645Z is the final answer by Pentax in my opinion.

06-17-2014, 06:07 PM   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
I think a full frame K-01 with articulating EVF would be a much better design .
If they want to make that on the side, then no worries. But I certainly hope, if they do come with with a digital full frame body, the first one contains a normal Optical ViewFinder.

There seems to be a loud minority here pushing the mirrorless FF agenda. Yet I don't see the purpose. No matter how much you shrink the camera body, you need some bulk to hold. And the giant (even for Pentax's diminutive sized) lenses jutting off the front of the camera means pocketability is thrown out of the door. Balance is thrown out too since most of the weight at that point is in the lens. Unless you are going for a pancake prime at which point I wonder what is the point even more?

That is to say,

If I wanted something that small, I'd get a Ricoh GR or small bridge camera. Larger sensor, Built in Lens.

If I wanted access to lenses, I'd just get a normal dslr body with an OVF.

Perhaps someone can educate me on the value of a mirrorless FF body (using a FF lens mount and not a smaller lens mount [and thus not smaller lenses])? At this point, it seems to be more of a fad to slim the camera body than anything to me.
06-17-2014, 09:31 PM   #231
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Pentax / Ricoh have said in recent interviews it will be a DSLR, not a mirrorless system, which is fine by me!

I have no real interest in mirrorless either.
06-17-2014, 09:34 PM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
I have no idea whether you're for or against Pentax FF. I'm very skeptical of Pentax getting FF out as I wrote in another thread. The 645Z is the final answer by Pentax in my opinion.
I think the 645Z is rather a question, and it always was. As is any other camera; anything a manufacturer offers, is often declared as "an answer". But is it?
I don't think it is. If there is an FF from Pentax coming some time soon, I'd like it to be formed as a question: "Is this FF camera a good enough camera to be the best FF experience there is?"
Because if it is introduced as an "answer" to Pentax users wishes all these years, it will not be good enough.
06-17-2014, 10:55 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I'm pretty sure of one thing. Whenever Pentax does release a FF camera it won't satisfy most of these posters. The only question is whether the condemnation will be a 'K-01 Level' collective primal scream or merely 'K-3 crazy mirror sickness Level' coyotes yapping in the distance.
Give me a FF with K3 quality and functionality, and with a decent line of fast lenses, and I promise I'll be satisfied.

If that's an unreasonable request then they should get out of the camera game...quite frankly!!!

06-17-2014, 11:16 PM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That is one more reason I take all 2014 FF rumours and alleged prophesies with a spoonful of salt.
I think it's pretty simple. The existence of a ~*70-200/2.8 can be justified even without a FF. A ~*24-70/2.8 makes little sense without one. So they're only willing to put the former on the road map right now. No need to announce everything before it's ready, right?
06-18-2014, 03:03 AM - 1 Like   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I think the 645Z is rather a question, and it always was. As is any other camera; anything a manufacturer offers, is often declared as "an answer". But is it?
I don't think it is. If there is an FF from Pentax coming some time soon, I'd like it to be formed as a question: "Is this FF camera a good enough camera to be the best FF experience there is?"
Because if it is introduced as an "answer" to Pentax users wishes all these years, it will not be good enough.
I suspect the key question in many a buyer's mind is far simpler: do I trust these guys? Trust them, that is, to deliver not just a camera body but a whole system, properly supported, produced on time, reliable and easy to understand. if the answer isn't "Yes" then there is no need to take a risk. There are already two complete systems out there from Canon and Nikon which can be purchased instead. I'm just sketching out the challenges here. In some ways, producing the first FF body is the least of Ricoh's problems. Everything else, and there is a lot of it if one wants a credible system, has to follow too. That also includes a lot of marketing along the lines of "Yes, you can trust us". Simply issuing a body and a few lenses to please the legacy lens crowd really isn't launching anything much, strictly imho.

This is surely much harder than with products like the Q, the Ricoh GR or the 645D/Z where there is not direct (and very powerful) competition who've been out there with their systems for years.

Last edited by mecrox; 06-18-2014 at 03:21 AM.
06-18-2014, 04:14 AM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I suspect the key question in many a buyer's mind is far simpler: do I trust these guys? Trust them, that is, to deliver not just a camera body but a whole system, properly supported, produced on time, reliable and easy to understand. if the answer isn't "Yes" then there is no need to take a risk. There are already two complete systems out there from Canon and Nikon which can be purchased instead. I'm just sketching out the challenges here. In some ways, producing the first FF body is the least of Ricoh's problems. Everything else, and there is a lot of it if one wants a credible system, has to follow too. That also includes a lot of marketing along the lines of "Yes, you can trust us". Simply issuing a body and a few lenses to please the legacy lens crowd really isn't launching anything much, strictly imho.

This is surely much harder than with products like the Q, the Ricoh GR or the 645D/Z where there is not direct (and very powerful) competition who've been out there with their systems for years.
Exactly!

The question any discerning and potential user should ask, Does this deserve to be? What is the purpose of it? Does it makes sense in making it, and owning it? In a way, that thought should follow each new product, from conception to its sales. The principle also describes each photograph we make. We are choosers, we are judges, and that is what we do all the time.

For example, we chose only photographs we can see growing into something more in the future, and delete the rest. We choose photographs we know that cannot be repeated, either in recreating the exact moment, or in exceeding the skill needed to produce it again. Likewise, we ask: will this new FF deliver so much better photographic experience than one we already have, and will photographs taken with it stand out above those I can make now?

Ricoh Imaging has indeed a Herculean task for the Pentax FF. The FF experience has already been defined in the market, landmarks set, rules of the games set too and expectations carved in stone, so to speak. They will be severely judged against all other FF systems and there are already plenty of them; some very mature and polished up.

I am very afraid they won't stand a chance to deliver a clear alternative to so many FF choices. They may deliver one extra choice for their own users to group them better and stop going elsewhere. Several years too late, yes, but better late than never.

Last edited by Uluru; 06-18-2014 at 04:23 AM.
06-18-2014, 04:20 AM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Exactly!
The question any discerning and potential user should ask, "Does this deserve to be? What is the purpose of it? Does it makes sense in making it, and owning it?" In a way, that thought should follow each new product, from conception to its finish. It also describes each photograph we make. We choose and we decide and that is what we do all the time.

For example, we chose only photographs we can see growing into something more, and delete the rest. We should also ask: will this FF deliver so much better photographic experience than one we already have, and will photographs taken with it stand out above those I can make now?

Ricoh Imaging has indeed a Herculean task. They will be severely judged against all other FF systems and there are already plenty of them, some very mature and polished up and I am very afraid they won't stand a chance to deliver a clear alternative to so many FF choices.
.
Geeez uluru, it's just a camera not rocket scince!
06-18-2014, 06:28 AM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I suspect the key question in many a buyer's mind is far simpler: do I trust these guys? Trust them, that is, to deliver not just a camera body but a whole system, properly supported, produced on time, reliable and easy to understand. if the answer isn't "Yes" then there is no need to take a risk. There are already two complete systems out there from Canon and Nikon which can be purchased instead. I'm just sketching out the challenges here. In some ways, producing the first FF body is the least of Ricoh's problems. Everything else, and there is a lot of it if one wants a credible system, has to follow too. That also includes a lot of marketing along the lines of "Yes, you can trust us". Simply issuing a body and a few lenses to please the legacy lens crowd really isn't launching anything much, strictly imho.

This is surely much harder than with products like the Q, the Ricoh GR or the 645D/Z where there is not direct (and very powerful) competition who've been out there with their systems for years.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Exactly!

The question any discerning and potential user should ask, Does this deserve to be? What is the purpose of it? Does it makes sense in making it, and owning it? In a way, that thought should follow each new product, from conception to its sales. The principle also describes each photograph we make. We are choosers, we are judges, and that is what we do all the time.

For example, we chose only photographs we can see growing into something more in the future, and delete the rest. We choose photographs we know that cannot be repeated, either in recreating the exact moment, or in exceeding the skill needed to produce it again. Likewise, we ask: will this new FF deliver so much better photographic experience than one we already have, and will photographs taken with it stand out above those I can make now?

Ricoh Imaging has indeed a Herculean task for the Pentax FF. The FF experience has already been defined in the market, landmarks set, rules of the games set too and expectations carved in stone, so to speak. They will be severely judged against all other FF systems and there are already plenty of them; some very mature and polished up.

I am very afraid they won't stand a chance to deliver a clear alternative to so many FF choices. They may deliver one extra choice for their own users to group them better and stop going elsewhere. Several years too late, yes, but better late than never.
Never forget, when they introduce a FF Pentax camera that first FF Pentax camera is the first FF Pentax Camera, not the only FF Pentax camera. That's both good and bad.

It's good because we'll come to believe there will be a series of Pentax FF cameras, each better than the last, as Pentax learns to make, market and support FF cameras. And that implies lenses, accessories, marketing adn support.

It's bad because, recognizing the obligation to make a long-term commitment to FF Pentax cameras, Ricoh may simply have decided the long-term cost is greater than the long-term return. They may well have decided to concentrate on APSc and d645 where they have the best-spec'ed offerings.

My opinion is they will make the commitment - and I believe that because they've openly stated

1). they believe there is room for a third full-line maker and it will be Pentax
2). there time horizon for success is the intermediate term, which is 5 - 7 years.

Be patient. be happy. Ricoh has a plan.
06-18-2014, 07:10 AM   #239
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They better hope there's room for at least four full line manufacturers.
06-18-2014, 09:04 AM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
They better hope there's room for at least four full line manufacturers.
Canon, Nikon, Pentax and . . . . . Fuji?
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