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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
Voters: 663. You may not vote on this poll

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06-19-2014, 02:22 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
...
Curiously, this lust for fast glass seems to arise, not so much from a desire for narrow DOF (although that sometimes is the case), but merely from a kind of tripod-phobia. In the majority of cases, these photographers want fast glass for hand-hold shooting in low light.
The only hand worth holding in low light is the love of your life's. I'll happily take that over these folks who post thousands of pictures to sites like Flickr of stuff like lamp-posts, brick walls and parked cars taken at f1.4 on the latest $$$ alleged super cam.

06-19-2014, 06:32 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
But that isn't a feature - it's a bug.
Same for me,i never would work with a camera,smaller like my Pentax System.
But,if somebody like it small,why not?
Best regards
06-20-2014, 06:47 PM   #258
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Bingo.

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Yes.

Others may have inside information, which I don't have. But looking at it logically, they've had enough time to develop the camera. The only thing holding them back should be the lenses.

Pentax recently put a ~70-200 * lens on the roadmap. Tokina just showed a 24-70/2.8 they said they'll announce at Photokina: New Tokina AT-X PRO 24-70mm f/2.8 SD (IF) FX lens spotted at CP+ | Photo Rumors

So if Pentax has the 70-200, plus someone's 24-70 in the Pentax mount, they'll be ready to release the camera. They already have 3 FA Ltds, a few DFA lenses, and at least 3 FF ready DA lenses I can think of off of the top of my head (DA*55, DA*200, DA*300). The only thing missing is a wide angle lens or wide zoom, which may already be on the roadmap (in any case, all they need is something like Tokina's current 16-28/2.8 FX lens to fill this role). And if they're smart, they have a whole stable of quality FA glass they can pull from and bring a few of them back - whether in revised form or just as they were.
06-20-2014, 10:35 PM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
It's amazing the amount of BS on this forum.
I think there are certain bulls who're responsible for most of the "production!"

06-21-2014, 07:19 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Go use a 36mp FF mirrorless with the 35mm Zeiss lens and then tell me it's not small. It's amazing the amount of BS on this forum.
OK. But I don't give a twig about small and I DON'T WANT TO USE a 36MP FF mirrorless.

Now what?

Oh. I forgot. Credentialed Elite. Behavioral Economics. Social Pressure.

monochrome isn't qualified to make the decision that is clearly in his best interest so we'll just make the right decision on his behalf and nudge him to come to the correct conclusion in spite of his inferior education, narrow experience sub-par capacity for independent critical evaluation of the facts.

Last edited by monochrome; 06-21-2014 at 07:40 AM.
06-21-2014, 07:34 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK. But I don't give a twig about small and I DON'T WANT TO USE a 36MP FF mirrorless.

Now what?
A typical post from a Pentax fanboy.
06-21-2014, 07:40 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
OK. But I don't give a twig about small and I DON'T WANT TO USE a 36MP FF mirrorless.

Now what?
Go tell the other user (mee?), who jogiba was replying to, that he doesn't want one because you don't want one?
06-21-2014, 07:43 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
A typical post from a Pentax fanboy.
A typical reply from a Sony cultist.


Battlespace Prep. 'Other' your opponent. Poor benighted soul. Change the terms of the argument.


I wrote nothing about Pentax. I don't want to use the Ricoh 36Mp FF mirrorless either.

06-21-2014, 07:46 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
A typical reply from a Sony cultist.
Wrong, mirrorless cultist.
06-21-2014, 08:17 AM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Wrong, mirrorless cultist.
Whatever. I won't bother you any more.

The problem is to know what is smoke and what is mirrors anyway.
06-21-2014, 09:58 AM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Go use a 36mp FF mirrorless with the 35mm Zeiss lens and then tell me it's not small. It's amazing the amount of BS on this forum.
Why bother if you're limiting yourself to a single focal length? You could just pickup a GR if you really want decent IQ with a limited focal length in a very small form factor. But why not ask for a FF pocketable camera in that case?

Your point of view makes no sense to me because you've provided no reasoning to why mirrorless is a benefit for the majority over a DSLR with a typical OVF. And it would have to be a benefit to the majority for Ricoh to release it.. because they want to make money.. a lot of it.


The Sony in your photograph still has a massive lens attached to the front of it. It is sure smaller than that pentax rig in the same photo, but it is still large. And are they even the same focal length and aperture?

The point being, you can resize the body of a camera all you want, but it (today at least) still has a fairly massive lens attached to the front of it thus squashing much of the benefit of the smaller camera body! It surely isn't pocketable. It is still a large block of metal with a tube jutting off the side.

Does a mirrorless system weigh significantly less (and a traditional OVF body with the same lens)? Is it somehow easier to weather seal? Something else? Surely there is a better reason to go mirrorless than a simple shrinking of the camera body! You haven't really provided any reasons and I am interested in knowing the benefits to the majority/typical DSLR user with an OVF containing body.

Please share!
06-21-2014, 10:16 AM   #267
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The better reason to go mirrorless is that they're cheaper to make, thus the manufacturers would be making higher profits on them. Or at least this was supposed to happen - it didn't work well for 4/3, whose "built for digital" thing was the hope that the smaller sensor would give them a cost advantage.
Of course, that's "better reason" for camera makers, not for the buyers - who are led to believe nonsense like "this is the future so you must have it now" or "it's good to have the thinnest body possible".
My 2 euro cents.
06-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #268
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I do think mirrorless has a big future. I haven't bought into a system yet because they still aren't there yet. The K-3 is small enough. I don't want to go smaller. Instead I want them to put larger sensors in a body like a K-3. IF they can get a FF sensor in a body the size of the A7, then they can put a MF sensor in a body the size of the K-3, or that is what I'm hoping for.

I'm more interested in a MF mirrorless than a FF mirrorless.
06-21-2014, 11:31 AM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Why bother if you're limiting yourself to a single focal length? You could just pickup a GR if you really want decent IQ with a limited focal length in a very small form factor. But why not ask for a FF pocketable camera in that case?

Your point of view makes no sense to me because you've provided no reasoning to why mirrorless is a benefit for the majority over a DSLR with a typical OVF. And it would have to be a benefit to the majority for Ricoh to release it.. because they want to make money.. a lot of it.


The Sony in your photograph still has a massive lens attached to the front of it. It is sure smaller than that pentax rig in the same photo, but it is still large. And are they even the same focal length and aperture?

The point being, you can resize the body of a camera all you want, but it (today at least) still has a fairly massive lens attached to the front of it thus squashing much of the benefit of the smaller camera body! It surely isn't pocketable. It is still a large block of metal with a tube jutting off the side.

Does a mirrorless system weigh significantly less (and a traditional OVF body with the same lens)? Is it somehow easier to weather seal? Something else? Surely there is a better reason to go mirrorless than a simple shrinking of the camera body! You haven't really provided any reasons and I am interested in knowing the benefits to the majority/typical DSLR user with an OVF containing body.

Please share!
There are a few reasons...no mirror slap. EVF can be used in situations where the viewfinder would be almost completely black. With a EVF, you can make changes and see their effect real time. With manual focus lenses EVF are a godsend with one touch magnification in conjunction with focus peaking. It makes nailing focus with the fastest lenses very fast and easy, much easier than a OVF with a focusing screen which gets dark with slower lens.

Last edited by cali92rs; 06-21-2014 at 11:37 AM.
06-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Why bother if you're limiting yourself to a single focal length? You could just pickup a GR if you really want decent IQ with a limited focal length in a very small form factor. But why not ask for a FF pocketable camera in that case?

Your point of view makes no sense to me because you've provided no reasoning to why mirrorless is a benefit for the majority over a DSLR with a typical OVF. And it would have to be a benefit to the majority for Ricoh to release it.. because they want to make money.. a lot of it.


The Sony in your photograph still has a massive lens attached to the front of it. It is sure smaller than that pentax rig in the same photo, but it is still large. And are they even the same focal length and aperture?

The point being, you can resize the body of a camera all you want, but it (today at least) still has a fairly massive lens attached to the front of it thus squashing much of the benefit of the smaller camera body! It surely isn't pocketable. It is still a large block of metal with a tube jutting off the side.

Does a mirrorless system weigh significantly less (and a traditional OVF body with the same lens)? Is it somehow easier to weather seal? Something else? Surely there is a better reason to go mirrorless than a simple shrinking of the camera body! You haven't really provided any reasons and I am interested in knowing the benefits to the majority/typical DSLR user with an OVF containing body.

Please share!
What is the point, if I said the sky is blue then you would say no it's not. You said the 35mm F2.8 FE lens is massive and that just shows were your head is at.
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