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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
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06-21-2014, 12:33 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
What is the point, if I said the sky is blue then you would say no it's not. You said the 35mm F2.8 FE lens is massive and that just shows were your head is at.
I wrote a detailed response and yet you still don't show me anything.

You still have yet to provide any uses for a mirrorless system outside of size, which has been stated as such as not particularly that smaller.

cali92rs provided some possible differences (and Thanks btw!) but you, jogiba show me nothing other than pressing for a mirrorless system with very little reasoning beyond size (which, again isn't THAT much different). Why should Ricoh change the format of their system to appease the few over the many? What advantages do YOU have with such a system?

Believe me, if I found a sizable advantage to a mirrorless setup over my mirror setup then I'd be all for it. As of yet, telling me I am speaking 'bs' and that I don't agree with you 'shows where your (my) head is at' is both rude and unhelpful. Please be thoughtful.

06-21-2014, 12:44 PM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I wrote a detailed response and yet you still don't show me anything.

You still have yet to provide any uses for a mirrorless system outside of size, which has been stated as such as not particularly that smaller.

cali92rs provided some possible differences (and Thanks btw!) but you, jogiba show me nothing other than pressing for a mirrorless system with very little reasoning beyond size (which, again isn't THAT much different). Why should Ricoh change the format of their system to appease the few over the many? What advantages do YOU have with such a system?

Believe me, if I found a sizable advantage to a mirrorless setup over my mirror setup then I'd be all for it. As of yet, telling me I am speaking 'bs' and that I don't agree with you 'shows where your (my) head is at' is both rude and unhelpful. Please be thoughtful.
I like seeing all the info I need in the viewfinder and having a lightweight 36mp full frame hanging from my neck instead of a big heavy DSLR. I have used the Pentax 6x7 since 1974 and I prefer a small lightweight camera with image quality light years better then my 6x7 and I really don't care what Ricoh does since I don't expect an office copier company to compete with the latest camera technology except to purchase sensors from companies that do.
06-21-2014, 01:22 PM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Does a mirrorless system weigh significantly less (and a traditional OVF body with the same lens)?
Depends. Body, definitely. (~200-300 grams, depending on what you're comparing).

Lenses, sometimes. The wide angle lenses are supposed to be much better but I'm yet to see it in reality. Zeiss has a 16-35-ish lens coming out soon, so we'll see.


QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Is it somehow easier to weather seal?
A bit, perhaps.

QuoteQuote:
Something else? Surely there is a better reason to go mirrorless than a simple shrinking of the camera body! You haven't really provided any reasons and I am interested in knowing the benefits to the majority/typical DSLR user with an OVF containing body.

Please share!
Focus peaking, insta-blown-highlights, insta-focal-peaking, etc. Worth it to you? That's up to you...
06-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #274
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Focus peaking is just a workaround for the EVFs low resolution.

06-21-2014, 03:42 PM   #275
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I don't believe we'll see a FF at Photokina or hear something other than "we are looking into this matter", but are there any rumours concerning a new aps-c-flagship?
06-21-2014, 04:07 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by infoomatic Quote
I don't believe we'll see a FF at Photokina or hear something other than "we are looking into this matter", but are there any rumours concerning a new aps-c-flagship?
Not that I know of since we just recently had one released.
06-21-2014, 04:27 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Focus peaking is just a workaround for the EVFs low resolution.
You do realize that modern optical viewfinder are optimized for brightness and as such you cant accurately tell what's in focus at apertures wider than f2.8, right?
So, focus peaking is also a workaround for that limitation as well.

---------- Post added 06-21-14 at 04:43 PM ----------

I think I know what's going on.... people are getting better results with Pentax lenses on mirrorless platforms than with Pentax bodies. Much less effort is required when you dont have to mess with a silly green button and swapping out the stock focusing screen for a Canon derived screen.
That makes certain fanboys nervous.

Who cares if it's a workaround...what's important is that it works.
06-21-2014, 09:54 PM   #278
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If I'd go for Panasonic then just because of the GH4 with it's video capabilities. They make great hybrid machines for that purpose. If you go for fotography only I'd choose at least APS-C or FF. I travel a lot, so small size and little weight is an issue as well. There are so many good cameras out there, I think one has to choose what SYSTEM suits you best for a longer time.

06-22-2014, 12:02 AM   #279
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It's coming, it's coming ... saw an image of it via the stains at the bottom of my coffee cup this morning.

Either that or I am hallucinating far too early today ... time will tell.
06-22-2014, 01:50 AM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
You do realize that modern optical viewfinder are optimized for brightness and as such you cant accurately tell what's in focus at apertures wider than f2.8, right?
So, focus peaking is also a workaround for that limitation as well.

---------- Post added 06-21-14 at 04:43 PM ----------

I think I know what's going on.... people are getting better results with Pentax lenses on mirrorless platforms than with Pentax bodies. Much less effort is required when you dont have to mess with a silly green button and swapping out the stock focusing screen for a Canon derived screen.
That makes certain fanboys nervous.

Who cares if it's a workaround...what's important is that it works.
Having seen the good ol' viewfinders yes, I do realize that and not only on a theoretical level.
However... I can focus reasonably easy and well with an autofocus "full frame" viewfinder (people with better eyes than me might do that with APS-C as well). I cannot do that with an EVF without workarounds like magnification and/or focus peaking. And while I only had brief experience with focus peaking - and not on all platforms - my impression is that it's not that accurate.

It wouldn't be mirrorless propaganda if it didn't had the "fanboy" word in it, right? That's how one puts weight behind arguments!
06-22-2014, 07:39 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Having seen the good ol' viewfinders yes, I do realize that and not only on a theoretical level.
However... I can focus reasonably easy and well with an autofocus "full frame" viewfinder (people with better eyes than me might do that with APS-C as well). I cannot do that with an EVF without workarounds like magnification and/or focus peaking. And while I only had brief experience with focus peaking - and not on all platforms - my impression is that it's not that accurate.

It wouldn't be mirrorless propaganda if it didn't had the "fanboy" word in it, right? That's how one puts weight behind arguments!

It doesn't matter how good your eyes are, the focusing screen wont show what is in and out of focus accurately at apertures wider than f2.8.
Your "impression" is not true at all. Focus peaking and magnification allow for much more precise focus than what these viewfinders allow and has been demonstrated plenty of. times.
Using terms like "my impression" and "brief experience" only cement the fact that listening to your opinion regarding this topic is a waste of time.


I will listen to people with good experience and can intelligently discuss this...but thanks for conveying your half-truths anyway
06-22-2014, 08:09 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
It doesn't matter how good your eyes are, the focusing screen wont show what is in and out of focus accurately at apertures wider than f2.8.
Let me disagree with you on this one

Split screen and microprism show very accurately what's in and out of focus. And even more with wide aperture.

If you are refering to the usual matt stock screen of today DSLR, then i agree with you.
06-22-2014, 08:23 AM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
Let me disagree with you on this one

Split screen and microprism show very accurately what's in and out of focus. And even more with wide aperture.

If you are refering to the usual matt stock screen of today DSLR, then i agree with you.
Yes, that is true...I mentioned swapping out focusing screens in my first post
They work well...I had the EE-S type on my K-5 and K-5IIs. But they aren't the perfect solution. They will darken your viewfinder, especially if you are using slower 5.6 zooms. You also have to properly shim them to ensure accuracy. The split screens are also accurate but can effect spot metering.
06-22-2014, 09:57 AM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
It doesn't matter how good your eyes are, the focusing screen wont show what is in and out of focus accurately at apertures wider than f2.8.
Your "impression" is not true at all. Focus peaking and magnification allow for much more precise focus than what these viewfinders allow and has been demonstrated plenty of. times.
Using terms like "my impression" and "brief experience" only cement the fact that listening to your opinion regarding this topic is a waste of time.


I will listen to people with good experience and can intelligently discuss this...but thanks for conveying your half-truths anyway
Of course I'm saying "my impression" and "brief experience", it would be dishonest of me to claim more than what I have. But being honest about it is reason for personal attacks from the likes of you Drop the holier-than-thou attitude, you're too transparent for that.

FTR I never said magnification doesn't offer precision; it certainly does, though its a bit cumbersome to use and its slowing you down (here I have a bit more than "brief experience", by the way). I very much doubt that you can get near that level of precision using focus peaking (and apparently I'm not the only one to believe so).
06-23-2014, 10:11 AM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
... I don't expect an office copier company to compete with the latest camera technology except to purchase sensors from companies that do.
...except Ricoh has been making cameras since the 50s and they now own all the Pentax technology and legacy...

But hey, even if they didn't... How many people would have said something similar 10 years ago, about a computer manufacturer entering into the cell phone business? "I don't expect Apple to make a camera that's any good, they're a computer company..."

---------- Post added 06-23-14 at 01:13 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
If you are refering to the usual matt stock screen of today DSLR, then i agree with you.
I'm confused now... so if I can focus my f/1.7 and f/2 lenses repeatedly with my stock K20D, I'm just being unusually lucky?
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