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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
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08-09-2014, 06:48 AM   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
It is true, there is a sweet gap between K-3 and 645Z, that Pentax should really fill in. The FF camera is the only answer. But look the current competitors now (in US). There are bunch FF cameras that can be problematic for Pentax once they want to play in this small market share called FF system. The models in circles are the most likely where pentax is going to introduce their first FF.



I wonder how Pentax will answer the demand for FF camera, if we see how competitive this area has become.To be honest,I'd like to see Pentax more investing their resources, first in mirrorless APSC to compete with Fuji X system, and then after that FF camera.
Nice graph, thanks for that. I looked at one of our topselling sites to see the popularity
  1. 5D Mark III body
  2. 6D body
  3. D810 body
  4. D610 body
  5. 6d + 24/105mm
  6. 5d Mark III + 24/105mm

So the Sony looks great, but sells less then we may all think (at least overhere). So it is not only the price that drives customers. It is a shop with a large professional customerbase, so that is maybe why the 5D Mark III is so popular. Other shops maybe just sell 6D and D610 and almost never more expensive.

08-09-2014, 07:58 AM   #452
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Checking Amazon.com: Sony A7 and A7s have higher sales rank than any Pentax DSLR, and A7r has about the same rank as Pentax best selling DSLR (K3 and K50). So Sony probably sells close to twice as many mirrorless FF as Pentax sell APS-C DSLR on amazon..

Sony FF "DSLR" is very far down on sales (probably a few % of what A7 series sell).
08-09-2014, 08:03 AM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Checking Amazon.com: Sony A7 and A7s have higher sales rank than any Pentax DSLR, and A7r has about the same rank as Pentax best selling DSLR (K3 and K50). So Sony probably sells close to twice as many mirrorless FF as Pentax sell APS-C DSLR on amazon..

Sony FF "DSLR" is very far down on sales (probably a few % of what A7 series sell).
Just a thought.... Sony heavily promotes and subsidizes losses on A7, it is an "advocacy" product promoting sensors... Amazon is a US Skewed/ centric model, not indicative of the global market. Rumors are that SONY is cutting back on Imaging (except chip production)... Losses are too heavy on high $$$ products...
08-09-2014, 01:24 PM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
Just a thought.... Sony heavily promotes and subsidizes losses on A7, it is an "advocacy" product promoting sensors... Amazon is a US Skewed/ centric model, not indicative of the global market. Rumors are that SONY is cutting back on Imaging (except chip production)... Losses are too heavy on high $$$ products...
Agree with your take on Sony complete image products. It may be Sony's perception that it is a wiser tack to be a sensor supplier for all the eager combatants, partnering wherever advantageously profitable (low hanging fruit). No doubt Sony has turned the head of many (end user and manufacturer), with both complete systems and new (sensor) technologies, but all have development and marketing costs which eventually have corporate BU segment reviews. Perhaps these system costs may be best recouped with sensor profits (clearly non asymptotic), hedging more resource weight to that effort, and more sales to the aforementioned eager.

Regardless of who is winning, Sony always is.

RM-

08-09-2014, 02:28 PM   #455
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
Just a thought.... Sony heavily promotes and subsidizes losses on A7, it is an "advocacy" product promoting sensors.
i'd call that unsubstantiated idle speculation.

it's probably closer to the truth to say that, in terms of emount, sony is trying to make money on the glass, rather than the bodies... everything that they have put out is slow, and in the case of the zooms, not up to par with the pro glass that canikon sells.

it's an uphill battle... sony has to make a profit on what basically amounts to a new lens mounting system.
09-01-2014, 06:43 AM   #456
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Sony will continue to sputter in Camera sales. Profits are down, and they bleed in most models. Turn around team there is very open to financial market views on the profitability of this division. Sony has to make adapters for others' glass since they cannot execute the needed platform and hit division survival numbers. If anyone thinks that Pentax is slow on new glass, Watch the continuation of the Sony saga.

They have a multi-bn Yen sensor plant to pay for, and they are covering but need marginal volume to make real money. Cameras and glass aren't enough to pay the janitorial staff...
09-01-2014, 06:54 AM   #457
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Hasn't Sony introduced about six new lenses since the last new Pentax lens?
09-01-2014, 06:59 AM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Hasn't Sony introduced about six new lenses since the last new Pentax lens?
LOL! My experience tells me that you'd better hide now.

Edit: Oh, and it's 7. That one lens that Pentax introduced fits the Sony cameras as wel.


Last edited by Clavius; 09-01-2014 at 07:53 AM.
09-01-2014, 07:33 AM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
LOL! My experience tells me that you'd better hide now.
Experience tells me anyone who says something that's only part of the truth better hide...
people are happy to correct misleading additions to the record.
09-01-2014, 07:53 AM   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Hasn't Sony introduced about six new lenses since the last new Pentax lens?
How do we fit the waning 3rd party K-mount lens support into this?
09-01-2014, 08:53 AM   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Hasn't Sony introduced about six new lenses since the last new Pentax lens?
No, they haven't. According to DPReview's Lens Timeline tool, Sony last announced lenses on 16th October, while Pentax announced their 20-40 Limited on 6th November 2013.
The newest announced Pentax K-mount optical product is the 1.4x RC, on 5th February. The newest Pentax lens, the DA645 28-45, on 4th August.
09-01-2014, 10:13 AM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
How do we fit the waning 3rd party K-mount lens support into this?
Waning K-mount support.... pfffft
Support is waning because they can't sell the lenses. Despite the great lenses made by Sigma, they clearly aren't what Pentax users want. How is them stopping making lenses Pentax users aren't buying a problem? You're out of touch with the Pentax community.

Every time Sigma stops making a lens, it's because there is something more popular out there. Pentax - think light weight and portable. Sigma- think big and bulky.

Sigma - think competitive company. The less they sell, the more its a sign Pentax is meeting the needs of their customers in house.

As much as I like Sigma, their design direction is not a good match with Pentax... they are the anti-Pentax. I carry my 21 ltd and 40XS in a Pelican case designed for a cell phone. Both are great lenses that give us great results.

Are you starting to get a handle on this, are you going to be able to think this through for yourself next time, or do we need to keep at it for you?. Right now I'm carrying a Sigma 70 macro and Sigma 8-16. If the 15 ltd and 50 macro will take their places to reduce my weight and space in my camera bag, I'll be selling both of them. I like them, but they aren't small, or light weight.

As a Pentax user, it's probably selfish but, I don't care if they make a camera for you. I want them to make stuff for me. They already have more in their lineup than I need, so why do I care if Sigma never releases another lens for them?

Sigma not making lenses in K-mount. In the long run, that's probably more sales for Pentax. My only current interest from Sigma was the 70-200, and I was waffling a couple ways. Those lenses are big, and I haven't decided I want one, and the Tamron is very close to being as good, so I hadn't decided which to look at. Sigma just made my life easier, thanks for that Sigma.
So that's how I look at waning 3rd party lens support... why would I care?
What i have, in the long run, I'll probably get rid of them. I like them both, but they haven't made it ion my list of keepers. Tamron 90, DA*60-250, DA 18-13, 21 ltd 40XS, I have no reason to want to get rid of any of those.

So, that's how it fits into waning 3rd party support. It's as likely to be good for Pentax and Pentaxians, and it's going to cut into Sigma's sales numbers. Maybe not a lot, and it's going to increase Pentax's sales numbers, also probably not a lot. But from my perspective, it's all good, just maybe not a lot. Given Pentax's numbers, consolidating what's available into fewer manufacturer's with better numbers for Tamron and Pentax, is probably a good thing.
09-01-2014, 10:15 AM   #463
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
No, they haven't. According to DPReview's Lens Timeline tool, Sony last announced lenses on 16th October, while Pentax announced their 20-40 Limited on 6th November 2013.
The newest announced Pentax K-mount optical product is the 1.4x RC, on 5th February. The newest Pentax lens, the DA645 28-45, on 4th August.
Fair enough. So, among the sub $3k lenses or whatever the 28-45 is, Sony has 7 lenses in the same time Pentax announced one lens, and a polarizing lens at that.

I think Pentax doesn't really need all that many lenses - 4-6 new lenses in the next 2-3 years would really round out the system. Nevertheless, in terms of rate of release, Sony is killing Pentax.
09-01-2014, 10:45 AM - 1 Like   #464
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Well Sony has a lot of capital and is following a completely different strategy than Pentax. Maybe Ricoh will give Pentax more capital to experiment with, which is essentially what Sony is doing with its wide range of different cameras and mounts and lenses ("throw everything and see what sticks"). So far, Ricoh hasn't done this, but we don't know what is going on behind the scenes.
Edit: And I think many wish Pentax would take up some of the Sony strategies to launch our beloved K-mount to the stars
09-01-2014, 11:16 AM   #465
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The Mirrorless Revolution:
The Mirrorless Revolution

Not everyone has the same equipment needs as Kevin Raber and Michael Reichmann but they both talk about their personal migration from medium format, to full-frame DSLR, and now to mirrorless cameras. The market is changing and I just hope Pentax has more than a rainbow of colors to offer customers. Sony is rumored to be launching 15 new lenses for the FE mount over the next year. Sony has thrown so much mud on the wall the last few years, they may have finally found something that sticks.

People talk about the size advantage of APS-C over full-frame, but the reality is that the advantage only exists for longer glass. Pentax users are always quick to point out that most of the small DA Limited lenses will cover a FF image circle, and the 31mm, 43mm, & 77mm lenses are all very compact even by APS-C standards. It's not until you get to longer glass and zooms that you see a size advantage for APS-C. Zack Arias did the recent video where he explains that the size difference between APS-C and FF is just not that much, and the APS-C apologists all jumped for joy. The A7 sells for about the same price as the Fuji X-T1. The camera bodies are practically the same size. With the Sony A7 however, you get 50% more mega pickles and a sensor that has 2.33x the surface area than APS-C. I actually prefer the Fuji system as it exists today over the Sony FE system, but that may change. If Sony ever hires an engineer who understands camera ergonomics, and adds the A6000 AF to the A7 line they will have a very appealing system.
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