Photokina 2014 - FF

jsherman999 · 09-08-2014, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

When looking at that picture, I scratch my head. Can someone enlighten me and explain the point of Fuji's system?

Fujifilm's managers: "You said Canon's lenses are big? Wait till you see OURS!" Bwahahahaha ...

Users: "........" [scratch their heads — they have just sold their DSLR and a plethora of lenses to get a mirrorless Fuji that mimics the DSLR and comes with even bigger lenses]

Optical Physics that constrain "1.Good, 2.Small, 3.Affordable, 4.Constant-aperture: pick three" + "Marketing epiphany: Sometimes Big Sells" == that lens

RonHendriks1966 · 09-09-2014, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

When looking at that picture, I scratch my head. Can someone enlighten me and explain the point of Fuji's system?

Fujifilm's managers: "You said Canon's lenses are big? Wait till you see OURS!" Bwahahahaha ...

Users: "........" [scratch their heads — they have just sold their DSLR and a plethora of lenses to get a mirrorless Fuji that mimics the DSLR and comes with even bigger lenses]

Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens.

Jean Poitiers · 09-09-2014, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by calsan

16-55
Yep, a lens the size of a pint glass.
Pint and shoot.

A lens like that would drive me to drink, too ... Can you say "overkill" huge.

---------- Post added 09-09-14 at 11:34 ----------

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens.

Ditto

afan137 · 09-09-2014, 02:57 AM

Yups, Fuji is less interesting with the lens that big. But we have to praise, out of our jealousy, that Fuji deliver very capable lenses, and they listen to their customers. I guess, now we have to wait what pentax will deliver in Photokina. I wish they can show some magic that will once again live up their reputation. I remember reading this article: The Best (Autofocus) Lenses Money Can Buy, from which I aspire with pentax gear. Come on Pentax show what you capable of.

Nagimaru · 09-09-2014, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens.

If it's a great piece of glass, I don't see why some Fuji users would detract away from the lens just because of it's size. Fuji has made some glass superior to some of Pentax's offerings.

You don't have to call other brands or people stupid just because they have a different targets in mind.

Jean Poitiers · 09-09-2014, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by Nagimaru

If it's a great piece of glass, I don't see why some Fuji users would detract away from the lens just because of it's size. Fuji has made some glass superior to some of Pentax's offerings.

You don't have to call other brands or people stupid just because they have a different targets in mind.

What's the point of a huge, "f2.8 fast" APS-C UWA zoom lens attached to a small MILC ?! And at what price point ?

Well, at least one could say, "Mine's BIGGER than yours" ...

Winder · 09-09-2014, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

When looking at that picture, I scratch my head. Can someone enlighten me and explain the point of Fuji's system?

Fujifilm's managers: "You said Canon's lenses are big? Wait till you see OURS!" Bwahahahaha ...

Users: "........" [scratch their heads — they have just sold their DSLR and a plethora of lenses to get a mirrorless Fuji that mimics the DSLR and comes with even bigger lenses]

That is what their customers have been asking for. They have the smaller 18-55 variable aperture for people who value size and weight over speed. This is a second option for people who value the speed over size. Options are good. It also means that Fuji probably has a larger higher spec body coming that is a better balance for these lenses. I find the Fuji X-T1 too small.

---------- Post added 09-09-14 at 05:26 AM ----------

Originally posted by afan137

Yups, Fuji is less interesting with the lens that big.

Why are they less interesting? Their base has been asking for a constant aperture F/2.8 zooms and Fuji is delivering. Fuji makes a smaller 16-55mm for people who don't want the faster glass. Do more options make them less interesting?

Uluru · 09-09-2014, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens.

Constant f4 and one could have a killer little combo.
Gimme an APS-C mirrorless camera with

three f4, 3x zooms,
four f3.2 primes,
one f4 tele-prime
some ISO 100K capable sensor

And you have the best little system in the world. It needs nothing else. Only maybe 1.4x TC and 0.7 WC.
Voila! System done and ready.

woonsin · 09-09-2014, 03:35 AM

Do not make Pentaxians lose their hope by keeping delay too long like many years...... Until we already get too old to wait for newly released FF camera?????

Jean Poitiers · 09-09-2014, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by Winder

...

Why are they less interesting? Their base has been asking for a constant aperture F/2.8 zooms and Fuji is delivering. Fuji makes a smaller 16-55mm for people who don't want the faster glass. Do more options make them less interesting?

Point taken. I wish Pentax listened plus had the means ...

But, then again, who shoots APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 ... I don't get it.

Nagimaru · 09-09-2014, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by Jean Poitiers

What's the point of a huge, "f2.8 fast" APS-C UWA zoom lens attached to a small MILC ?! And at what price point ?

Well, at least one could say, "Mine's BIGGER than yours" ...

Fuji lenses have never been tiny, nor relatively cheap. But some of them do have amazing IQ.

My point is, if Fuji is listening to some of it's customer base that doesn't care about size or cost, and offering them a fast, 24-70 equivalent with metal construction, IS, WR, and great IQ , then why not?

Find me a tiny metal barreled APS-C 16-55 with an in-lens AF motor, IS and WR that is dirt cheap.

Why does it seem to me that some people jumping into this anti-Fuji (EDITED by moderator) the moment they see it being on the large side, and possibly expensive, while ignoring all other points?

Keep in mind, if the IQ is bad, then everything I said is moot point. But if, and if, it's great: Some Fuji users asked, Fuji delivered, why and how is that stupid?

rodneyy · 09-09-2014, 03:45 AM

I choose "No" but I support the Pentax FF, if mirrorless full frame even better, hope a little then A7s... or surprise me :P

Jean Poitiers · 09-09-2014, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by Nagimaru

Fuji lenses have never been tiny, nor relatively cheap. But some of them do have amazing IQ.

My point is, if Fuji is listening to some of it's customer base that doesn't care about size or cost, and offering them a fast, 24-70 equivalent with metal construction, IS, WR, and great IQ , then why not?

Find me a tiny metal barreled APS-C 16-55 with an in-lens AF motor, IS and WR that is dirt cheap.

Why does it seem to me that some people jumping into this anti-Fuji circlejerk the moment they see it being on the large side, and possibly expensive, while ignoring all other points?

Keep in mind, if the IQ is bad, then everything I said is moot point. But if, and if, it's great: Some Fuji users asked, Fuji delivered, why and how is that stupid?

Whatever ... A circlejerk it is then.

How much is this lens and how many copies do you think they will sell ? A "profit maker" lens or "loss leader" for the prestige factor ... and please explain the benefits of an APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 to me. Enlighten my ignorance.

Winder · 09-09-2014, 03:56 AM

Originally posted by Jean Poitiers

Point taken. I wish Pentax listened plus had the means ...

But, then again, who shoots APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 ... I don't get it.

I don't know, but Fuji also has a 16mm F/1.4 shown on the road map.
X Mount Lens Roadmap | Fujifilm Global

Fuji is doing a fantastic job of filling out the lens line-up.

Fuji has a larger professional grade body in the works. These new zooms will balance nicely.

Nagimaru · 09-09-2014, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by Jean Poitiers

Whatever ... A circlejerk it is then.

How much is this lens and how many copies do you think they will sell ? A "profit maker" lens or "loss leader" for the prestige factor ... and please explain the benefits of an APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 to me. Enlighten my ignorance.

Obviously, thought was put into the decision of making and releasing the lens, so whatever ROIs the product has, it was sufficient reason for Fuji.

Judging from the price points of previous lenses, probably somewhere over a thousand dollars, but my point isn't about the size, nor price, but about Fuji delivering a product.

As for the benefits of an "APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8", I think you have to state why you think it's a bad thing before anyone can explain.

View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
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09-08-2014, 10:33 PM	#601
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	the likely equation Originally posted by Uluru When looking at that picture, I scratch my head. Can someone enlighten me and explain the point of Fuji's system? Fujifilm's managers: "You said Canon's lenses are big? Wait till you see OURS!" Bwahahahaha ... Users: "........" [scratch their heads — they have just sold their DSLR and a plethora of lenses to get a mirrorless Fuji that mimics the DSLR and comes with even bigger lenses] Optical Physics that constrain "1.Good, 2.Small, 3.Affordable, 4.Constant-aperture: pick three" + "Marketing epiphany: Sometimes Big Sells" == that lens

09-09-2014, 03:29 AM	#608
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens. Constant f4 and one could have a killer little combo. Gimme an APS-C mirrorless camera with three f4, 3x zooms, four f3.2 primes, one f4 tele-prime some ISO 100K capable sensor And you have the best little system in the world. It needs nothing else. Only maybe 1.4x TC and 0.7 WC. Voila! System done and ready.

09-09-2014, 03:41 AM	#611
Nagimaru Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 27	Originally posted by Jean Poitiers What's the point of a huge, "f2.8 fast" APS-C UWA zoom lens attached to a small MILC ?! And at what price point ? Well, at least one could say, "Mine's BIGGER than yours" ... Fuji lenses have never been tiny, nor relatively cheap. But some of them do have amazing IQ. My point is, if Fuji is listening to some of it's customer base that doesn't care about size or cost, and offering them a fast, 24-70 equivalent with metal construction, IS, WR, and great IQ , then why not? Find me a tiny metal barreled APS-C 16-55 with an in-lens AF motor, IS and WR that is dirt cheap. Why does it seem to me that some people jumping into this anti-Fuji (EDITED by moderator) the moment they see it being on the large side, and possibly expensive, while ignoring all other points? Keep in mind, if the IQ is bad, then everything I said is moot point. But if, and if, it's great: Some Fuji users asked, Fuji delivered, why and how is that stupid? Last edited by Tom S.; 09-18-2014 at 02:13 PM.

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09-09-2014, 02:29 AM	#602
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Uluru When looking at that picture, I scratch my head. Can someone enlighten me and explain the point of Fuji's system? Fujifilm's managers: "You said Canon's lenses are big? Wait till you see OURS!" Bwahahahaha ... Users: "........" [scratch their heads — they have just sold their DSLR and a plethora of lenses to get a mirrorless Fuji that mimics the DSLR and comes with even bigger lenses] Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens.

09-09-2014, 02:33 AM	#603
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Originally posted by calsan 16-55 Yep, a lens the size of a pint glass. Pint and shoot. A lens like that would drive me to drink, too ... Can you say "overkill" huge. ---------- Post added 09-09-14 at 11:34 ---------- Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens. Ditto

09-09-2014, 02:57 AM	#604
afan137 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kyoto Posts: 158	Yups, Fuji is less interesting with the lens that big. But we have to praise, out of our jealousy, that Fuji deliver very capable lenses, and they listen to their customers. I guess, now we have to wait what pentax will deliver in Photokina. I wish they can show some magic that will once again live up their reputation. I remember reading this article: The Best (Autofocus) Lenses Money Can Buy, from which I aspire with pentax gear. Come on Pentax show what you capable of.

09-09-2014, 03:03 AM	#605
Nagimaru Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 27	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Who in is right mind is going to walk around with that large piece of glass? You might as wel buy a camera that can hold it. Stupid as stupid can be. If they made it a constant f3.2 it would have been significant smaller already and still a great lens. If it's a great piece of glass, I don't see why some Fuji users would detract away from the lens just because of it's size. Fuji has made some glass superior to some of Pentax's offerings. You don't have to call other brands or people stupid just because they have a different targets in mind.

09-09-2014, 03:13 AM	#606
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Originally posted by Nagimaru If it's a great piece of glass, I don't see why some Fuji users would detract away from the lens just because of it's size. Fuji has made some glass superior to some of Pentax's offerings. You don't have to call other brands or people stupid just because they have a different targets in mind. What's the point of a huge, "f2.8 fast" APS-C UWA zoom lens attached to a small MILC ?! And at what price point ? Well, at least one could say, "Mine's BIGGER than yours" ...

09-09-2014, 03:23 AM	#607
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Uluru When looking at that picture, I scratch my head. Can someone enlighten me and explain the point of Fuji's system? Fujifilm's managers: "You said Canon's lenses are big? Wait till you see OURS!" Bwahahahaha ... Users: "........" [scratch their heads — they have just sold their DSLR and a plethora of lenses to get a mirrorless Fuji that mimics the DSLR and comes with even bigger lenses] That is what their customers have been asking for. They have the smaller 18-55 variable aperture for people who value size and weight over speed. This is a second option for people who value the speed over size. Options are good. It also means that Fuji probably has a larger higher spec body coming that is a better balance for these lenses. I find the Fuji X-T1 too small. ---------- Post added 09-09-14 at 05:26 AM ---------- Originally posted by afan137 Yups, Fuji is less interesting with the lens that big. Why are they less interesting? Their base has been asking for a constant aperture F/2.8 zooms and Fuji is delivering. Fuji makes a smaller 16-55mm for people who don't want the faster glass. Do more options make them less interesting?

09-09-2014, 03:35 AM	#609
woonsin New Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: North East District Photos: Gallery Posts: 4	Do not make Pentaxians lose their hope by keeping delay too long like many years...... Until we already get too old to wait for newly released FF camera?????

09-09-2014, 03:40 AM	#610
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Originally posted by Winder ... Why are they less interesting? Their base has been asking for a constant aperture F/2.8 zooms and Fuji is delivering. Fuji makes a smaller 16-55mm for people who don't want the faster glass. Do more options make them less interesting? Point taken. I wish Pentax listened plus had the means ... But, then again, who shoots APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 ... I don't get it.

09-09-2014, 03:45 AM	#612
rodneyy Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: CAT CITY Photos: Gallery Posts: 34	I choose "No" but I support the Pentax FF, if mirrorless full frame even better, hope a little then A7s... or surprise me :P

09-09-2014, 03:50 AM	#613
Jean Poitiers Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Lost in translation ... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 18,076	Originally posted by Nagimaru Fuji lenses have never been tiny, nor relatively cheap. But some of them do have amazing IQ. My point is, if Fuji is listening to some of it's customer base that doesn't care about size or cost, and offering them a fast, 24-70 equivalent with metal construction, IS, WR, and great IQ , then why not? Find me a tiny metal barreled APS-C 16-55 with an in-lens AF motor, IS and WR that is dirt cheap. Why does it seem to me that some people jumping into this anti-Fuji circlejerk the moment they see it being on the large side, and possibly expensive, while ignoring all other points? Keep in mind, if the IQ is bad, then everything I said is moot point. But if, and if, it's great: Some Fuji users asked, Fuji delivered, why and how is that stupid? Whatever ... A circlejerk it is then. How much is this lens and how many copies do you think they will sell ? A "profit maker" lens or "loss leader" for the prestige factor ... and please explain the benefits of an APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 to me. Enlighten my ignorance.

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09-09-2014, 03:56 AM	#614
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Jean Poitiers Point taken. I wish Pentax listened plus had the means ... But, then again, who shoots APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 ... I don't get it. I don't know, but Fuji also has a 16mm F/1.4 shown on the road map. X Mount Lens Roadmap \| Fujifilm Global Fuji is doing a fantastic job of filling out the lens line-up. Fuji has a larger professional grade body in the works. These new zooms will balance nicely.

09-09-2014, 04:03 AM	#615
Nagimaru Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 27	Originally posted by Jean Poitiers Whatever ... A circlejerk it is then. How much is this lens and how many copies do you think they will sell ? A "profit maker" lens or "loss leader" for the prestige factor ... and please explain the benefits of an APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8 to me. Enlighten my ignorance. Obviously, thought was put into the decision of making and releasing the lens, so whatever ROIs the product has, it was sufficient reason for Fuji. Judging from the price points of previous lenses, probably somewhere over a thousand dollars, but my point isn't about the size, nor price, but about Fuji delivering a product. As for the benefits of an "APS-C 16mm @ f/2.8", I think you have to state why you think it's a bad thing before anyone can explain.