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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
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09-23-2014, 08:23 AM   #766
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
See last week's Financial Times article... SONY laid off 7000, more to come. CHIP plants not making money at current levels. They sell cameras to establish some "cache" for real buyers of imaging ships... cell phone makers....

Samsung does NOT compete in global imaging platforms at RP or Canon's level. Walk in to a Graphics shop in Seoul.... Japanese scanners and production printers... Samsung started with Pentax to "catch up". Had virtually NO photo before that...Wanted to buy it from Hoya. Rumor was PTX was too conservative for Samsung. I believe it....
These are enormously powerful companies with many many many talented, resourceful people, and tons of money. Sorry.

09-23-2014, 08:42 AM   #767
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Pentax wasn't all that boring compared to the other manufacturers. Generally though, this was the most boring Photokina ever. It seems more and more imaging companies are choosing to release products as soon as they come out.
Only a tiny miniscule amount of consumers go to those trade shows. A lot of people that run tech sites and blogs go. But what is the incentive of waiting until these trade shows when it is easier just to "leak" the info to websites or better yet send them actual hardware to play with.
09-23-2014, 08:43 AM   #768
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No need to apologize...

QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
These are enormously powerful companies with many many many talented, resourceful people, and tons of money. Sorry.
I was merely responding with some facts...

I am saddened by SONY's decline. One of the great corporations, founded by US post-war money. I have lived it all like many... small radios, clock radios, walkman, the AIWA surge in stereos, Trinitron, Bravia (still have on in the office), CD/DVD players, all the greats.... Not knocking SONY....

Sony is bleeding cash in all of the wrong areas. Apple crushed them (I am NOT an Apple fan) and everyone else with iPods (stereos no more) ipods and bluetooth/airplay/docked speakers killed them. iPhone put significant (not insurmountable) barriers up, hitting compact cameras, calculators, pagers, blackberries, heck evev golf club swing analyzers. so much for their consumer cash strength.

Samsung is killing them in TV, Panasonic and Canon in Commercial Video (TV Production and satellite). Industrial semi-conductors (CMOS/ etal) is under attack from Philips and Samsung. Tough theater....

I agree that Samsung is strong as a firm, but in imaging platforms (scanning, production/photo printers, and complex photographic/ medical diagnostic areas, Samsung is no Canon or RP. If I were Canon/RP, I would be looking over my shoulder though. My next question is who buys Nikon.... Samsung, Konica/Minolta (a re-entry), or Sharp...
09-23-2014, 10:17 AM   #769
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
My next question is who buys Nikon......

How about GoPro?

09-23-2014, 10:21 AM - 1 Like   #770
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
I was merely responding with some facts...
There's also Panasonic and Fuji. Two more irrelevant startups I suppose. Oh, uh, yes, facts. According to forbes:

Fujifilm Holdings
Market Cap $13.04 B

Sony
Market Cap $20.15 B

Samsung Electronics
Market Cap $186.47 B

Panasonic
Market Cap $28.45 B

Ricoh
Market Cap $8.38 B

Or, uh, yes, end of Sony and Samsung. This morning, I whipped out my Pentax laptop, checked my emails, and grabbed my Pentax Galaxy to check my calendar. I had a little video editing to do, so I plugged in my HD screen, a Pentax 27 inch. Then I stole a half hour of me time with my Pentax Playstation. Then, kind of lazy to be watching tv in the afternoon, but I just couldn't resist my Pentax flatscreen.

Last edited by easyreeder; 09-23-2014 at 10:40 AM. Reason: a bit more, sorry
09-23-2014, 10:45 AM   #771
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I'll bring over my Nikon Coffee Maker and spin up a few...

QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
There's also Panasonic and Fuji. Two more irrelevant startups I suppose.

Uh, yes, end of Sony and Samsung. This morning, I whipped out my Pentax laptop, checked my emails, and grabbed my Pentax Galaxy to check my calendar. I had a little video editing to do, so I plugged in my HD screen, a Pentax 27 inch. Then I stole a half hour of me time with my Pentax Playstation. Then, kind of lazy to be watching tv in the afternoon, but I just couldn't resist my Pentax flatscreen.
I think Panasonic (Matsushita) has done well with Lumix/Leica. I Lumix to me reminds me of Lexus, Toyota's brand for Yanks. They call them Toyotas at home. If you or anyone can explain to me why (other than cash) Leica hooked up with Panasonic, I'd like to know. My best guess was to get value for the RedDot being affiliated with a digi-compact player (nice move). Leica in 4/3 is still an odball for me, maybe they saw M mounts being most like 4/3?

Fuji's repeated failures going back to the 1970s and 80s, plus the S3 debacle tells me they will do their niche, pretty well, then bore of it.... They are the 3 year life cycle kings, IMHO. I looked at the Fujis, nicely done. Can't pull the trigger though based on their history. At least Matsushita and Fuji make money... Sony and Nikon "ain't"...

My quandry with SONY is how do they "turn it". Fixed costs are high in ALL divisions except movie making.... Big machine trying to play with speedboats. In theory, Nikon should have built the A7r first.... Very "Appley" move...

I do NOT think Samsung is going anywhere, they and LG have contributed to the downfall of Bosch, SONY, Panasonic, and Sharp. Well run and aggressive... I just don't think that SONY is a real threat in Photo since it's problems are larger everywhere else. Maybe they sell off the photo piece. Their PC play (VAIO) albeit smaller has a very nice, small, profitable niche...

SONY DSLRs died.... Compact losses were massive (as were Canon, PTX, Nikon, etal)... but they were 5x bigger at SONY and Canon (based on financials I saw in the WSJ a coupbe of years ago) compared to the specialists (PTX/Nikon) due to their scale... Will be fun to watch

---------- Post added 09-23-14 at 01:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
How about GoPro?
Nikon Market cap is $6.5 Bn USD, GoPro ~$2.5-3.8 (est)... Boy would Woodman be challenging a bunch of legacy though... I'd want a lawn chair and an Iced Tea to sit and watch that one...
09-23-2014, 11:33 AM   #772
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
There's also Panasonic and Fuji. Two more irrelevant startups I suppose. Oh, uh, yes, facts. According to forbes:

Fujifilm Holdings Market Cap $13.04 B

Sony Market Cap $20.15 B

Samsung Electronics Market Cap $186.47 B

Panasonic Market Cap $28.45 B

Ricoh Market Cap $8.38 B
QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
Nikon Market cap is $6.5 Bn USD, GoPro ~$2.5-3.8 (est)... Boy would Woodman be challenging a bunch of legacy though... I'd want a lawn chair and an Iced Tea to sit and watch that one...
GoPro is more value then Ricoh in total, $8.6 B

GPRO Stock Quote - GoPro Inc. Stock Price Today (GPRO:NASDAQ) - MarketWatch
You should have bought GoPro
09-23-2014, 11:39 AM   #773
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I agree... But...

[quote=RonHendriks1966;2952714]GoPro is more value then Ricoh in total, $8.6 B

GPRO Stock Quote - GoPro Inc. Stock Price Today (GPRO:NASDAQ) - MarketWatch
I must have seen an old listing... Yup GoPro is bigger than Nikon... In market cap. Nikon, however wouldn't likely sell to them.... GoPro will likely sell to Apple. How about this one... Nikon being a specialist.... They would fit well in up-market Yamaha.... Never the lowest cost in ANY space they play in...

09-24-2014, 12:54 PM   #774
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
GoPro is more value then Ricoh in total, $8.6 B
GPRO Stock Quote - GoPro Inc. Stock Price Today (GPRO:NASDAQ) - MarketWatch
I must have seen an old listing... Yup GoPro is bigger than Nikon... In market cap. Nikon, however wouldn't likely sell to them.... GoPro will likely sell to Apple. How about this one... Nikon being a specialist.... They would fit well in up-market Yamaha.... Never the lowest cost in ANY space they play in...
oh look, today GoPro's market cap is 9.18B

They must have sold at least some new camera's....
09-24-2014, 01:03 PM   #775
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They must have a new 24kt Solid gold cased model...

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
oh look, today GoPro's market cap is 9.18B

They must have sold at least some new camera's....
I just had a '70 flashback for a gold plated filmie with lizard skin on it...

Leica, Nikon, Rollei, Pentax, and Minox all did "Pimp My Cam" editions of one thing or another...

Now if someone could cram a 36 mp APSh in a Rollei 16s body and give is some nice lock-on Mutars, I would go to picture taking heaven a happy guy...
09-24-2014, 01:33 PM   #776
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
I just had a '70 flashback for a gold plated filmie with lizard skin on it...

Leica, Nikon, Rollei, Pentax, and Minox all did "Pimp My Cam" editions of one thing or another...

Now if someone could cram a 36 mp APSh in a Rollei 16s body and give is some nice lock-on Mutars, I would go to picture taking heaven a happy guy...
There is going to come the day that GoPro is plumming down!
09-24-2014, 01:51 PM   #777
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We can't short'em anymore in the states....

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
There is going to come the day that GoPro is plumming down!
But long term Put options are still being traded... 500 January '17 Puts strike 65. a 50% correction to a 450PE in the next 2 years? makes ~$40/share buying the puts at $23/shr...

All I know is you are soooooooooooooooooooooooo right.
09-24-2014, 02:04 PM   #778
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
My next question is who buys Nikon.... Samsung, Konica/Minolta (a re-entry), or Sharp...
Don't forget Nikon is the largest (or second) manufacturer of photolithographic steppers (Nikon Precision). Every one of these companies is large, varied and integrated corporate conglomerate with embedded cash flows.
09-24-2014, 02:05 PM   #779
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
But long term Put options are still being traded... 500 January '17 Puts strike 65. a 50% correction to a 450PE in the next 2 years? makes ~$40/share buying the puts at $23/shr...

All I know is you are soooooooooooooooooooooooo right.
At that P/E it would still take GoPro 450 years to earn back my capital commitment. That's a bubble number.
09-24-2014, 02:30 PM   #780
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Don't forget Nikon is the largest (or second) manufacturer of photolithographic steppers (Nikon Precision). Every one of these companies is large, varied and integrated corporate conglomerate with embedded cash flows.
Nikon is nowhere compared to ASML.
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