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View Poll Results: Do you think FF will be announced at Photokina?
Yes 21632.58%
No 44767.42%
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06-11-2014, 06:12 PM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
What do you think if Pentax will bring a step like the K-5,but in Fullframe?
A Camera body like K-3,Sensor 24MP Sony last edition and a HighIso wonder like the K-5?
We should not believe that Pentax will bring 36MP like Nikon,cause there is a wonderfull 645Z,so 24MP with an outstanding iso range and highest quality with a price around 2000$ should be the optimum.
Best Body in this range,like K-3 in aps-c range,best sensor iso like the old K-5 in his time,silent and fast.

Best regards

I pretty much expect this is how it would look if released this year.. K-3 like body, mid range pixel count, very clean, high iso sensor and low price (for the market) and of course that buttery smooth shutter.

And I think it would be a hit... if the iso noise is handled very well it will sell well. And, priced at 2 grand street, it would likely sell like hot cakes.

06-11-2014, 07:18 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Thanks for your input. Next time could you please post so the rest of us can read it without going through Google Translate?

I read it just fine
06-11-2014, 10:48 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
What do you think if Pentax will bring a step like the K-5,but in Fullframe?
A Camera body like K-3,Sensor 24MP Sony last edition and a HighIso wonder like the K-5?
We should not believe that Pentax will bring 36MP like Nikon,cause there is a wonderfull 645Z,so 24MP with an outstanding iso range and highest quality with a price around 2000$ should be the optimum.
Best Body in this range,like K-3 in aps-c range,best sensor iso like the old K-5 in his time,silent and fast.

Best regards
If they will deliver a 24MP FF camera, they will need to justify that extra $800-900 on top of K-3, which already has an excellent 24 MP APS-C sensor. What I want to say is that they will be in a difficult position; on one side Ricoh Imaging takes pride in comparing the K-3 with D610 and similar FFs favourably and underscore the APS-C advantage of the K-3 (including price). Then how are they going to compare their own 24 MP FF with their own 24MP K-3?
I am curious to see what will be the hidden rabbit in their bag because the FF must be similar but also different enough from the K-3 to be appealing to users already using Pentax cameras, including the K-3.
They have a difficult task. It better be a good trick.

Last edited by Uluru; 06-11-2014 at 11:01 PM.
06-11-2014, 11:10 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pepe Le Pew Quote
I read it just fine
That's good, but the forum rules are to post in English. Whether reading or writing, at least we can all struggle through it in the same language.

06-11-2014, 11:14 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If they will deliver a 24MP FF camera, they will need to justify that extra $800-900 on top of K-3, which already has an excellent 24 MP APS-C sensor. What I want to say is that they will be in a difficult position; on one side Ricoh Imaging takes pride in comparing the K-3 with D610 and similar FFs favourably and underscore the APS-C advantage of the K-3 (including price). Then how are they going to compare their own 24 MP FF with their own 24MP K-3?
I am curious to see what will be the hidden rabbit in their bag because the FF must be similar but also different enough from the K-3 to be appealing to users already using Pentax cameras, including the K-3.
They have a difficult task. It better be a good trick.
Off the top of my head.

No AA filter.
Lower pixel density than 24mp apsc, so less harsh on lenses.
FF image circle.
Lower noise at high iso
06-11-2014, 11:18 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If they will deliver a 24MP FF camera, they will need to justify that extra $800-900 on top of K-3, which already has an excellent 24 MP APS-C sensor. What I want to say is that they will be in a difficult position; on one side Ricoh Imaging takes pride in comparing the K-3 with D610 and similar FFs favourably and underscore the APS-C advantage of the K-3 (including price). Then how are they going to compare their own 24 MP FF with their own 24MP K-3?
I agree with you that it will be a bit tricky. I'm also a bit skeptical that they'll come out with a 24MP model, even though that's what I advocated for earlier. 36MP FF has been out for so long now that people are used to the idea. Nikon's already about to release their second generation D800(s?) within a few weeks. And there have long been rumors Canon would go beyond 36MP. So at this point I'm very interested to see how they approach this.

I still believe they'll release 2 FF models. I just don't know if it will be concurrently or within about 6-8 months of each other. But this removes some of the dilemma, because there will be more than one option, each with its own selling points (and separate price points, no doubt).
06-11-2014, 11:50 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Then how are they going to compare their own 24 MP FF with their own 24MP K-3?
Nikon and Sony have exactly the same 'problem', yet still manage to sell boat loads of cameras. No need to overstate the difficulties of marketing the two forms of camera.

Aside from the usual FF pixie-dust, which helps FF bodies sell themselves, there will also no doubt be some extra tech/marketing features to add a little bit of distinctiveness to the FF above the Pentax APS-C's - maybe a few more AF points in the camera, some sort of special viewfinder doodads, a few more 'specially optimised for FF' lenses etc.
06-12-2014, 12:02 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
What do you think if Pentax will bring a step like the K-5,but in Fullframe?
A Camera body like K-3,Sensor 24MP Sony last edition and a HighIso wonder like the K-5?
We should not believe that Pentax will bring 36MP like Nikon,cause there is a wonderfull 645Z,so 24MP with an outstanding iso range and highest quality with a price around 2000$ should be the optimum.
Best Body in this range,like K-3 in aps-c range,best sensor iso like the old K-5 in his time,silent and fast.

Best regards
Sounds perfect Asahi Man! I always thought 24MP was enough, and 36MP is too close to the 645Z.

But Pentax needs some 'silent and fast' lenses to use with it....no use having a silent and fast camera with noisy and slow lenses

Add the lenses to the equation and I'm in (or I'll buy Sigma lenses in the meantime)


Last edited by Poit; 06-12-2014 at 12:10 AM.
06-12-2014, 12:53 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I would like to see the AF and metering controls returned to the K-5 location.
Same here. They just gave more direct, quick control over AF and AE modes, and I miss those controls every time I use the K-3.

I note that they kept the 654Z metering controls in the same location as the K-7/K-5/645D, so it can be done even if the advanced metering system of the K-3 is to be used in any FF.
06-12-2014, 12:57 AM - 1 Like   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If they will deliver a 24MP FF camera, they will need to justify that extra $800-900 on top of K-3, which already has an excellent 24 MP APS-C sensor. What I want to say is that they will be in a difficult position; on one side Ricoh Imaging takes pride in comparing the K-3 with D610 and similar FFs favourably and underscore the APS-C advantage of the K-3 (including price). Then how are they going to compare their own 24 MP FF with their own 24MP K-3?
I am curious to see what will be the hidden rabbit in their bag because the FF must be similar but also different enough from the K-3 to be appealing to users already using Pentax cameras, including the K-3.
They have a difficult task. It better be a good trick.
The fact they would both be '24MP' is irrelevant.

The advantages of FF over APS-C have been discussed to death in this forum, as well as everywhere else.

Those advantages, alone, are enough to justify an additional $800-900 for many (myself included). In fact, if anything, I think that a 24MP FF Pentax for $2000 would be a bargain, and more likely to damage sales of the K-3 than suffer itself.

And of course, the K-3 won't suffer much because it's primary sales have already been made. Clever strategy methinks!!!!
06-12-2014, 01:17 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
What do you think if Pentax will bring a step like the K-5,but in Fullframe?
A Camera body like K-3,Sensor 24MP Sony last edition and a HighIso wonder like the K-5?
We should not believe that Pentax will bring 36MP like Nikon,cause there is a wonderfull 645Z,so 24MP with an outstanding iso range and highest quality with a price around 2000$ should be the optimum.
Best Body in this range,like K-3 in aps-c range,best sensor iso like the old K-5 in his time,silent and fast.

Best regards
If Pentax do that .... well ... then i would say "take my money !!!"
06-12-2014, 02:31 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Nikon and Sony have exactly the same 'problem', yet still manage to sell boat loads of cameras..
No, I think they don't have such problems because Ricoh Imaging has been very proud in asserting that their 24 MP APS-C DSLR can beat other brand's FF DSLR at 24 MP.
I am writing here about a marketing (even moral) principle which neither of the competitors ever used in their own advertising (Nikon clearly advertises superiority of their FX line). However, Ricoh Imaging did use the APS-C K-3 proposition to, inadvertently, denigrate other brand's FF value proposition. And very profusely.

So if they will not eat their own words, or act without a principle and contradict themselves, they need to bring something extra to the table.

---------- Post added 06-12-2014 at 07:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
The fact they would both be '24MP' is irrelevant.
No, I think it is very relevant and I do not agree with Asahiman's assertion. Nor yours. Already explained in my previous answer above.
The FF cannot be just a 35mm sensor inside the K-3 body. It must be more than that to justify all the K-3 and 645Z advertising babble, in which quite derogatory adjectives and means of measure against the FF are used to explain the validity of the Pentax choices in camera design.

Last edited by Uluru; 06-12-2014 at 02:40 AM.
06-12-2014, 03:36 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Nikon and Sony have exactly the same 'problem', yet still manage to sell boat loads of cameras. No need to overstate the difficulties of marketing the two forms of camera.

Aside from the usual FF pixie-dust, which helps FF bodies sell themselves, there will also no doubt be some extra tech/marketing features to add a little bit of distinctiveness to the FF above the Pentax APS-C's - maybe a few more AF points in the camera, some sort of special viewfinder doodads, a few more 'specially optimised for FF' lenses etc.
I agree that many who now clamor for ff will find that 'FF pixie-dust' alone doth not an image make, but I wouldn't speak of "some sort of special viewfinder doodads" because I believe (and I fervently hope ) that the viewfinder will be the key to differentiate Pentax ff from Sony, Nikon and Canon. We have seen advances in every single area of technology going from the old film slr's to the latest K3 - save one: the viewfinder. They were 'crippled' and optimized for autofocus with only moderatly bright zooms. A decent manual focus experience with the ground glass micro prism split focus screen is lacking in every single dslr currently manufactured! I find that amazing as I know literally no photographer over the age of forty who does not sometimes wish to take his camera out for a spin and use it they way they were used in the old days. Canon and Nikon users will be green with envy if Pentax releases a ff camera with that (optional / interchangeable?) viewfinder.

That, plus a few fa limiteds and Pentax is squarely on the map of full format!
06-12-2014, 05:41 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If they will deliver a 24MP FF camera, they will need to justify that extra $800-900 on top of K-3, which already has an excellent 24 MP APS-C sensor. What I want to say is that they will be in a difficult position; on one side Ricoh Imaging takes pride in comparing the K-3 with D610 and similar FFs favourably and underscore the APS-C advantage of the K-3 (including price). Then how are they going to compare their own 24 MP FF with their own 24MP K-3?
I am curious to see what will be the hidden rabbit in their bag because the FF must be similar but also different enough from the K-3 to be appealing to users already using Pentax cameras, including the K-3.
They have a difficult task. It better be a good trick.
Rabbits in hats and cats in bags. Otherwise you will tip your cat to a lady and let the rabbit out of the bag and among the pigeons at which point, being a rabbit, it will jump straight back inside the bag.

Look, none of us has access to enough data to do anything more than guess. Ricoh's market research will indicate whether there is still life in high-end APS-C or whether it is time to move on to FF. Other parts of Ricoh will know what is coming down the line in terms of new sensors, Milbeaut processors (without which nothing happens anyway), etc, etc. It's all just business, whatever the marketing campaigns of yesterday may have suggested (or not suggested but persuaded us to suggest to ourselves).

I'll simply say that, imho, the two cameras to beat are the Canon 6D and the 5D Mark III, both solidly commercial hard-selling items. Why? Excellent low-light capabilities in one case and a great all-rounder in the second - both are also long-standing strengths of Pentax and Pentax are now very, very good at low-light AF. Ricoh already have the two nearest Nikon cameras dealt with. The 645z covers the D800 as an imaging behemoth. The D610 suffers from the terrible publicity attached to D6XX anything these days and besides the K3 has it beat in many aspects anyway. FWIW, I see quite a few Canon 6Ds in the hands of tourists here but I have yet to see a single Nikon D6xxx.

It's all a little theoretical since this stuff is beyond the pocketbooks or wants of, probably, the majority of us anyway. And it still doesn't tackle what to do about getting into the market for the cameras which will replace the DSLR - if, a big if, MILCs continue to grow in popularity. An awful lot of $$$ may turn on that one. As some have already said, there's nothing particularly special about FF these days. Ricoh just need to get on with it and get it out there if that's what they want to do. Otherwise make it very clear that they've passed on FF and are doing something else instead. The years of "FF Yes No Maybe" must have done the brand a whole lot of damage. Perhaps time to draw a line.
06-12-2014, 05:43 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
The fact they would both be '24MP' is irrelevant.

The advantages of FF over APS-C have been discussed to death in this forum, as well as everywhere else.

Those advantages, alone, are enough to justify an additional $800-900 for many (myself included). In fact, if anything, I think that a 24MP FF Pentax for $2000 would be a bargain, and more likely to damage sales of the K-3 than suffer itself.

And of course, the K-3 won't suffer much because it's primary sales have already been made. Clever strategy methinks!!!!

I expect a small price reduction on the K-3 around the time of Photokina.. esp if they are planning on releasing a FF body to make the gap between them at least 1000 dollars. which is rather sizable for many people I suspect.

In any case, for those who only can warrant 1 body ownership, it would make for an interesting period of second hand K-3 and APS-C only lens sales!!
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