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View Poll Results: What sensor do you like best? (Sony)
24mp 10753.23%
36mp 9446.77%
Voters: 201. You may not vote on this poll

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02-20-2014, 02:40 AM   #16
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I voted for 24 mp. That is more then enough for real large prints and the files keep modest compared to 36mp sensors.

02-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
What is more important to you in a FF camera.. More pixels from a 36mp sensor or less iso noise from a 24mp sensor?
You're assuming that 36MP will have more noise - that wasn't really the case between the Nikon D600 & D800, and there's no reason to think it would be the case with any Pentax-branded FF bodies.

36MP all the way - in fact, I think they should maybe even go straight to 54MP if an Exmor is available at that size when they're ready (seriously.)

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02-21-2014, 01:06 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
You're assuming that 36MP will have more noise - that wasn't really the case between the Nikon D600 & D800, and there's no reason to think it would be the case with any Pentax-branded FF bodies.

36MP all the way - in fact, I think they should maybe even go straight to 54MP if an Exmor is available at that size when they're ready (seriously.)

.
The 36MP does have more noise.. how much more varies in the reviews. But there are other advantages to the 24mp besides iso noise. I think a 30mp would be a cool compromise.
02-21-2014, 01:08 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
If Pentax made a camera with 12MP that had low-ISO IQ equivalent or better than the current insane 24+ MP cameras, I'd buy that instead.
+1

I don't want more than my current 16MP

02-21-2014, 12:28 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
The 36MP does have more noise.. how much more varies in the reviews. But there are other advantages to the 24mp besides iso noise. I think a 30mp would be a cool compromise.
The only reviews I'm aware of that state the D800 has more noise are things where the 'reviewer' was looking at 100% magnification. At the same display sizes, the noise is about equal.





"More MP automatically means more image noise" is a myth. Really - more MP gives you more cropability, tends to hold up to NR better, and downsampling holds slightly more capability. And, you can print bigger, if that's what you're after. There's no downside to more MP beyond processing time - and then, there's not really that much difference there between 24 & 36MP anyway, as far as I've seen on my workstations using LR. (there was a noticeable PP interactive response time and batch processing difference between 12MP & 36MP.)

I really mean it - more MP is better, when QE is similar - you will see!



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02-21-2014, 12:44 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
The only reviews I'm aware of that state the D800 has more noise are things where the 'reviewer' was looking at 100% magnification. At the same display sizes, the noise is about equal.





"More MP automatically means more image noise" is a myth. Really - more MP gives you more cropability, tends to hold up to NR better, and downsampling holds slightly more capability. And, you can print bigger, if that's what you're after. There's no downside to more MP beyond processing time - and then, there's not really that much difference there between 24 & 36MP anyway, as far as I've seen on my workstations using LR. (there was a noticeable PP interactive response time and batch processing difference between 12MP & 36MP.)

I really mean it - more MP is better, when QE is similar - you will see!



.
You have convinced me 36mp not bad.. I'm all for 36mp now if they can keep the fps up.
02-21-2014, 12:53 PM   #22
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The technology is continually improving and each generation of sensor will be able to handle less light to produce better quality images. The fps speed being left up to the image processing chip will naturally have to evolve with the sensor if the cameras boasting them are to live up to current end consumer demands. At present, the 36Mp sensor is good, but it could do better in the high ISO department, which is where the big advantage should be over APS-C, validating the extra resolution.
02-21-2014, 12:57 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
You have convinced me 36mp not bad.. I'm all for 36mp now if they can keep the fps up.
FPS is another drawback I should have mentioned, at least with current bodies - as is price (If Sony or whoever decides to call 36MP 'premium' and charge for it.) But IQ-wise - only advantages.

02-21-2014, 01:19 PM   #24
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The answer is dependent upon whether you print large. Right now the K3 is beyond my skill to exploit. I can get away with web display and small prints.

If Pentax brought a FF targeted between the D610 and D800e (feature-rich but a bit lower printing IQ than the D800e) at a very competitive price and let the 645DII compete at the top end - I think that FF would sell well and profitably. Whether that is a 24Mp or 36Mp sensor is a question 'printing photographers' will have to answer.

I could buy a Pentax FF as an adult toy if I choose to, but I believe, to be brutally honest, it would be a waste of money for me to buy a Pentax FF. I'm not good enough to need it and I'd be better off buying better lenses and shooting more instead. Actually I'd be better off buying nothing and just shooting more instead.

I think most enthusiasts, if they are brutally honest wtih themselves, don't need a better camera than a K3 - until they are good enough to print and display their images in public places.
02-21-2014, 01:40 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The answer is dependent upon whether you print large.
Or crop or downsample. (I rarely print larger than 11x16.)

One real concrete reason to want at least 36MP in current Exmor quality or higher - you can shoot all your aps-c lenses, auto-crop in camera to aps-c size and get the same # of MP, the same DR and the same SNR the K5 has now natively. 36MP gives you a K5 inside your new FF body! That would really help with the transition to FF lenses - if you even want to transition all of them. I still own and shoot two aps-c lenses on the D800 occasionally, in crop mode.

.
QuoteQuote:
I think most enthusiasts, if they are brutally honest wtih themselves, don't need a better camera than a K3 - until they are good enough to print and display their images in public places.
It's not really about need, though. Most photographers don't need anything more than a K30, or maybe even a K100Ds to get really nice web images and prints. I still have shots I took with my K100D on my wall, and they look as fantastic as ever - but it's going to be easier and more enjoyable (for me) to get shots like that with a K3, or D800, or a FF Pentax.

And you are absolutely right about working on technique first, that should go without saying, hopefully. But you can also work on technique with a FF body and 50mm prime




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Last edited by jsherman999; 02-21-2014 at 02:07 PM.
02-21-2014, 02:41 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The answer is dependent upon whether you print large. Right now the K3 is beyond my skill to exploit. I can get away with web display and small prints.

If Pentax brought a FF targeted between the D610 and D800e (feature-rich but a bit lower printing IQ than the D800e) at a very competitive price and let the 645DII compete at the top end - I think that FF would sell well and profitably. Whether that is a 24Mp or 36Mp sensor is a question 'printing photographers' will have to answer.

I could buy a Pentax FF as an adult toy if I choose to, but I believe, to be brutally honest, it would be a waste of money for me to buy a Pentax FF. I'm not good enough to need it and I'd be better off buying better lenses and shooting more instead. Actually I'd be better off buying nothing and just shooting more instead.

I think most enthusiasts, if they are brutally honest wtih themselves, don't need a better camera than a K3 - until they are good enough to print and display their images in public places.
Lenses are the key, I think, lenses of real quality. A few nice but standard-issue zooms and a nifty-fifty won'cut cut it. Everyone else has those too. The sensor tech is relatively straightforward, but top glass is the real challenge for Ricoh; else why buy their brands rather than the usual suspects?
02-21-2014, 03:42 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lenses are the key, I think, lenses of real quality. A few nice but standard-issue zooms and a nifty-fifty won'cut cut it. Everyone else has those too. The sensor tech is relatively straightforward, but top glass is the real challenge for Ricoh; else why buy their brands rather than the usual suspects?
Upgraded FA limiteds will help in that area.
02-21-2014, 04:44 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
Upgraded FA limiteds will help in that area.
Not necessarily. At their sweet spot yes, but wide open and at high apertures especially (the limiteds have big diffraction problem) they would not resolve the high pixel sensor. You end up spending more money on higher pixel density sensor, you are not using the pixels and yet you need more processing power and lots of had disks to store your pics. In my honest opinion, unless you are going to print big (and I mean wall size big) you dont need 36mp. And if you go for the 36 mp you better find yourself at F4-F7 all the time or have a zeiss otus. Otherwise you are wasting your time/money.
02-21-2014, 05:01 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
Not necessarily. At their sweet spot yes, but wide open and at high apertures especially (the limiteds have big diffraction problem) they would not resolve the high pixel sensor. .
They actually will resolve more on a high-MP sensor than a lower-MP sensor. We're a long way from 'sensors outresolving lenses.'

If you like them on 16MP aps-c, you will like them even more on 36MP FF - more Lp/Ph, and then of course you get more DOF control for the same FOVs.

I think Pentax should update them, but not because the old ones will in any way be 'bad' - they should just update them so they can sell more, and the whole initiative will be more successful. (and I might be able to pick up an original FA 43 & 31ltd at low prices : )

.
02-21-2014, 05:34 PM   #30
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I voted 24mp because I like night photography. My vote is conditional on getting a noticeable noise and DR improvement; if it's only a 1/3 EV improvement then I will take 36mp instead.
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