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02-26-2014, 06:16 PM   #1
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Megapixel mayhem

Anyone else find it odd that other top of the line bodies are sporting 16.2mp when even the lower priced same brand FF bodies range from 24-36mp? I know the debate rages on and 16mp seems to be the magic number where the rest is overkill, but for example Nikon 4DS just announced 16.2mp price 6k+, D800 36mp price 2800, so on and so on. I'm not advocating more megapixels at all just trying to understand the math. I'm perfectly happy at 16mp and don't plan on prints the size of my living room wall....Just saying end the madness...

JJ

02-26-2014, 06:27 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
Anyone else find it odd that other top of the line bodies are sporting 16.2mp when even the lower priced same brand FF bodies range from 24-36mp? I know the debate rages on and 16mp seems to be the magic number where the rest is overkill, but for example Nikon 4DS just announced 16.2mp price 6k+, D800 36mp price 2800, so on and so on. I'm not advocating more megapixels at all just trying to understand the math. I'm perfectly happy at 16mp and don't plan on prints the size of my living room wall....Just saying end the madness...

JJ
So the D4s and D800 is the same camera except for the sensor ? Really ?
Compare camera dimensions side by side
02-26-2014, 06:28 PM   #3
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MP count has its pros and cons. Nikon has the luxury of making "two flagship" cameras, so they can make one for each need.
Canon has the "do everything" approach with its flagship. Pentax, too.
The problem is that Nikon, with its D800 and later the new entry level cameras with 24MP sensors, re-started the MP war
02-26-2014, 07:25 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
Anyone else find it odd that other top of the line bodies are sporting 16.2mp when even the lower priced same brand FF bodies range from 24-36mp? I know the debate rages on and 16mp seems to be the magic number where the rest is overkill, but for example Nikon 4DS just announced 16.2mp price 6k+, D800 36mp price 2800, so on and so on. I'm not advocating more megapixels at all just trying to understand the math. I'm perfectly happy at 16mp and don't plan on prints the size of my living room wall....Just saying end the madness...

JJ
The D4 and D4s count FPS as one of the main selling points - they're meant to be the pro, FF sports monsters, with very good low light capability. If Sony makes a lower-MP sensor available that actually has a noise advantage over the 36 MP sony sensor, then it might make sense to use it - but why ask for less MP just for the sake of less MP? Why lose resolution for no gain in noise and only a gain in FPS?

(Note that the d4/d4s are Nikon designed sensors and will not be available to Pentax.)


Last edited by jsherman999; 02-26-2014 at 08:08 PM.
02-26-2014, 07:55 PM   #5
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The reason the D4 and D4s have 16 megapixels is to keep frame rate high. They are sold to photo journalists and sports guys who often don't even shoot RAW, but need something they can get to the internet or journal quickly. If you look at DXO Mark, the D800 has equivalent high iso performance (normalized) up to iso 6400 to the D4. The D4 does hold on to dynamic range a little better than the D800 at really high iso, but the difference isn't huge.

But I hear you. Megapixels aren't a huge deal and they can certainly slow things down. At the same time, if you shoot birds or wildlife or anything where you like to crop a lot, extra megapixels do come in handy.
02-26-2014, 07:59 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
So the D4s and D800 is the same camera except for the sensor ? Really ?
Compare camera dimensions side by side
I wasn't saying g they were the same camera, just found it odd the cheaper D800 had 36Mp and the newly announced flagship D4s sits at 16.2mp even the 3dx is at 24mp....

JJ
02-26-2014, 09:29 PM   #7
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Less MP for speed. More MP for detail.

---------- Post added 02-26-14 at 08:31 PM ----------

Which is why Pentax should go 36mp. The system is better suited to landscape, nature and portrait than to sports and journalism.
02-26-2014, 10:21 PM   #8
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D4s is a camera optimized for speed, but users of this camera (professionals) probably have other cameras optimized for other things too.
FI D800, to use when IQ is more important than speed.

Pentax flagship is very much optimized for IQ, and the new upcoming 645D will have 50MP.


Last edited by Fogel70; 02-26-2014 at 10:40 PM.
02-27-2014, 04:20 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
Which is why Pentax should go 36mp. The system is better suited to landscape, nature and portrait than to sports and journalism.
Interesting observation. Its true enough - Pentax DSLRs aren't known for their speed (though, the flagship was never a slouch).
02-27-2014, 06:45 AM   #10
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There is no big sense going into 36mp sensor with FF supposed Pentax.
Generally there is no sens in such big MP count sensor in FF camera. The lenses optical detail reproduction is at the limit with such dense sensor like in d800e.
Where will you use such big resolution? It can only be utilized in big format prints - like those on buildings... (but again for those you should use mid-format camera to get a better detailed image).
The point of d800 position on the market is that not-so-well-prospering pro photographers can use it as an economic alternative for mid-format digital cameras. But it is only cheap alternative not a competing approach.

That's not the way of achieving more details. You want more detail in landscapes - you use bigger lenses and grater sensor (read mid-format).
02-27-2014, 08:58 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomekP Quote
The lenses optical detail reproduction is at the limit with such dense sensor like in d800e.
No it's not, we're far from that point.


QuoteQuote:
Where will you use such big resolution? It can only be utilized in big format prints - like those on buildings...
No. Cropping, downsampling, displaying on large, high-res devices like 4K and future-proofing the images you make now for later devices. Also more MP tends to hold up to PP better, like NR and sharpening.
There's no downside, beyond throughput (FPS and PP) and storage, both of which are moving targets which mitigate themselves over time as storage gets cheaper and busses, CPUs and software gets better.

Don't fear the MP!

.
02-27-2014, 11:37 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jerryleejr Quote
I wasn't saying g they were the same camera, just found it odd the cheaper D800 had 36Mp and the newly announced flagship D4s sits at 16.2mp even the 3dx is at 24mp....

JJ
So you think if Nikon put the 36mp sensor in the D4s it would be half the price ?
02-27-2014, 12:03 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
So the D4s and D800 is the same camera except for the sensor ? Really ?
Compare camera dimensions side by side
The K-3 looks like a pocketable camera next to the D4s. Even the 645D doesn't look big.
02-27-2014, 12:46 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Interesting observation. Its true enough - Pentax DSLRs aren't known for their speed (though, the flagship was never a slouch).

Pentax processing speed, autofocus on moving subjects, and fast autofocus telephotos have always been behind Nikon and Canon.

---------- Post added 02-27-14 at 11:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by TomekP Quote
There is no big sense going into 36mp sensor with FF supposed Pentax.
Generally there is no sens in such big MP count sensor in FF camera. The lenses optical detail reproduction is at the limit with such dense sensor like in d800e.
Where will you use such big resolution? It can only be utilized in big format prints - like those on buildings... (but again for those you should use mid-format camera to get a better detailed image).
The point of d800 position on the market is that not-so-well-prospering pro photographers can use it as an economic alternative for mid-format digital cameras. But it is only cheap alternative not a competing approach.

That's not the way of achieving more details. You want more detail in landscapes - you use bigger lenses and grater sensor (read mid-format).




That is simply incorrect.

---------- Post added 02-27-14 at 11:51 AM ----------

The K-5 has the same pixel density as the D800 and D800e. The K-5 gives me more resolution and dynamic range than any previous camera I have used. The argument against a 36mp FF Pentax for landscape and nature images is disproven by experience. Give it up.
02-27-2014, 12:52 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
No it's not, we're far from that point.
No. Cropping, downsampling, displaying on large, high-res devices like 4K and future-proofing the images you make now for later devices. Also more MP tends to hold up to PP better, like NR and sharpening.
There's no downside, beyond throughput (FPS and PP) and storage, both of which are moving targets which mitigate themselves over time as storage gets cheaper and busses, CPUs and software gets better.

Don't fear the MP!
This may be be a little gloomy but imho "future proofing" rarely works out. It often emerges that other things have changed too, and pouring an old packet of stuff into the mix is less than ideal. Imagine, for example, a new standard file format that allows things we cannot do today because it contains much more sophisticated information than at present. Some day I expect this will happen.

Better, in my experience, to buy for today though with at least a weather eye over the near future if that means avoiding something which looks a little iffy.

I wonder whether high mpx isn't oversold for most folks? If folks can win world press awards using 24 mpx or less then no one is going to suffer by not having 36 mpx unless they have a special requirement, for example landscape photography. At the moment, 24 mpx seems fairly middle of the pack so probably offers good bang for the buck; heck it's now in anything from a D3300 to a K3 to a 5D MkIII.
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