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03-06-2014, 02:11 PM   #16
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I think we`ll have colonies on the moon before you see a dedicated B&W FF camera from Pentax.

What I'd like is my Nikon D800's performance ported to Pentax size with weather sealing.

I'd donate an organ for that.

03-06-2014, 02:29 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrancisK7 Quote
I think we`ll have colonies on the moon before you see a dedicated B&W FF camera from Pentax.

What I'd like is my Nikon D800's performance ported to Pentax size with weather sealing.

I'd donate an organ for that.
Why? I can already get D800 performance by buying the Nikon.

I want better performance than a D800 from a Pentax the size of the K5iiS.

03-06-2014, 02:33 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
Also I thought that a true B&W sensor could maybe come close to 8x10 film,PP is not the same..it must be possible with all the tech out today,at a realistic price (under $3000) as Leica or Phase 1 is never on sale
Not really going to happen. B&W film can resolve, in average contrast ranges, between 60-100 lp/mm. Good 8x10 optics and project 40-50 lp/mm onto 8x10, top of the line optics even more. If you equate megapixels to resolution, which I actually think is a fair comparison if you take the Bayer off, you'd need a file about 16000 x 20000 pixels.

The incredibly digital leaning Luminous Landscape tested the newest digital MF systems vs. 8x10 film, and they were pretty damn close, but in practical terms, the scans they use are over-sharpened and don't represent all the detail that can be pulled out of a given format.
03-06-2014, 02:39 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Why? I can already get D800 performance by buying the Nikon.

I want better performance than a D800 from a Pentax the size of the K5iiS.

Well, if we're dreaming...

03-06-2014, 05:34 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
If you read my post i mentioned the Phase 1,why so negative about Pentax? its a niche brand for enthusiasts..a B&W would fit in perfect in the lineup
I dare you to ask Ricoh why they don't have a B&W camera. Does Canon or Nikon have a B&W camera ? I wonder why ? How about an APS-H B&W camera ?
03-06-2014, 06:54 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
I dare you to ask Ricoh why they don't have a B&W camera. Does Canon or Nikon have a B&W camera ? I wonder why ? How about an APS-H B&W camera ?
give me there #.. if Pentax/Ricoh was playing 'catch up' to Canikon we'd have a FF by now, from what I see they do their own thing (ex. Q??!!) so why not a B&W Fuji/Kodak had one yrs back,which ten was still cheaper than Leica Mono
03-06-2014, 06:59 PM   #22
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Are we suppose to call them Ricoh now?
03-06-2014, 07:04 PM   #23
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Leica has one. And even they have been criticized for it. It's was too niche of a product for Pentax to even consider it...

With that said, a bw sensor does have certain advantages because it doesn't have the bayer pattern, but on the other hand its much more susceptible to highlight clipping because of the single channel.


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03-06-2014, 07:13 PM   #24
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Yes but Leica is priced in the stratosphere for most of us,that was the main criticism I think. Also it would have a larger DR I think,so Highlight clipping maybe not so critical?
03-06-2014, 08:00 PM   #25
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Silver Efex Pro 2 is pretty cheap. It does the job for me.
03-07-2014, 05:45 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrancisK7 Quote
Are we suppose to call them Ricoh now?
Digital Cameras by RICOH Imaging - Waterproof Digital Camera - Digital SLR
03-07-2014, 08:13 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
What I would really like is a 36MP dedicated B&W camera from Pentax,I know Kodak had one yrs ago but not many were ever made.Anyone else here hoping for the same??? I'm sure there is a market for it,Fine Art,Science,Astro etc... the only one now is Phase 1,at insane prices...
Lets hear your views people....
I wouldn't be interested, as I don't know that anything would be gained (for me) that NIK SEP can't provide at my typical output sizes. I could be convinced otherwise if I saw some results that came close to what theory predicts *could* happen with a Bayerless B&W sensor... But I don't think it should be a priority for Ricoh in any case.

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03-07-2014, 11:01 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jens Lyn IV Quote
I agree with your other points, but youe got this once backwards. A 36 MP Bayer filtered sensors2 green, 1 blue, and 1 red pixel for each 2x2 grid. Thus, luminance resolution is 36 MP, bu colourtion is only 18 MP in the green channel and 9 MP in the other two. Without the Bayer filter, resolution would be 36 MP and sensitivity would quadruple.

The Leica M Monochrom is very interesting. Unlike colour CCD sensors, it compares favourably to CMOS sensors even at very high ISO; a B&W CMOS sensor would be even better.


You're absolutely right in the context of the electrical output/translation of subpixels on current sensors with the Bayer filter popped off. Would it not be possible to re engineer the sensor (and or the raw subpixel output) to provide luminance data from each subpixel? Even in most current sensors I believe the subpixels are essentially identical behind the color filter no?
03-07-2014, 12:07 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
Also I thought that a true B&W sensor could maybe come close to 8x10 film,PP is not the same..it must be possible with all the tech out today,at a realistic price (under $3000) as Leica or Phase 1 is never on sale
For $3K you can get a good scanner for medium format film and shoot *real* BW that will yield pretty much the quality of a 36MP FF 35mm digital. And if you get good at developing your own BW you can take things to the next level. No doubt the excuses will be its to cumbersome and slow and what-not. But that's what it takes to do the real thing and you no longer have to "wish" anymore.
03-07-2014, 12:26 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
For $3K you can get a good scanner for medium format film and shoot *real* BW that will yield pretty much the quality of a 36MP FF 35mm digital. And if you get good at developing your own BW you can take things to the next level. No doubt the excuses will be its to cumbersome and slow and what-not. But that's what it takes to do the real thing and you no longer have to "wish" anymore.
Or, for about $1000 you could get a 4x5 field camera, a couple lenses, and a scanner that'll pull more detail out of a 4x5 frame than any current 35mm digital system. =)

Not really why I started with 4x5-- I started because you have individual control of every step for every image, which is a whole lot of fun =)
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