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03-08-2014, 03:11 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parry Quote
The Meyer Optik Gorlitz Orestegor 200/4 on the K-3.
This usefully highlights a dimension to the 'I need FF" issue that can be over-looked.

What goes on in the camera body and what goes on in front of it aren't always directly linked. Many lenses have a rendering profile due to their design (or age, or coatings) that may be largely independent of the sensor format you are using them on. The glass can often tell a story of its own. Zeiss glass vs Pentax glass, for example, or new Pentax D FA vs old Pentax M glass. So in a sense, choose your lenses, then think about your sensor size.

This is just, I guess, going to complicate life for the OP though.


Last edited by rawr; 03-08-2014 at 03:16 PM.
03-08-2014, 03:16 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
This usefully highlights a dimension to the 'I need FF" issue that can be over-looked.

What goes on in the camera body and what goes on in front of the sensor aren't always directly linked. Many lenses have a rendering profile due to their design (or age, or coatings) that may be largely independent of the sensor format you are using them on. The glass can often tell a story of its own. Zeiss glass vs Pentax glass, for example, or new Pentax D FA vs old Pentax M glass. So in a sense, choose your lenses, then think about your sensor size.

This is just, I guess, going to complicate life for the OP though.
. . . and so cheap!!!

Okay, we give up AF, but the lens that took this cost me 35 . . .



Jupiter-11A for anyone who's interested.

---------- Post added 09-03-14 at 06:31 ----------

. . . and look at the fun you can have. You can do all manner with these old Communist windows . . .

03-08-2014, 03:42 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
I liked the feel of the Nikon better
Give the D4 or D4s a try.
03-08-2014, 06:18 PM   #34
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I canceled my order for a Canon 6D... Maybe part of me posted this to have some sense talked into me.. Maybe I just have some money burning a hole in my pocket! I guess I just want to have confidence in the future of my equipment, and my confidence is being shaken with Pentax.. In fact, im starting to wonder if this generation of mounts across all DSLRs are in danger. Mirrorless is catching a lot of momentum, when Canon and Nikon decide to dip into this market I wonder if they will try to develop a new mount all together. How long until mirrorless become the new standard? It would be a good excuse for companies to make people invest in new lenses.. uhg...


I'm a little frantic because I would like to have a reliable camera for a road trip that I am going on in a couple of weeks..


A lot of people asked why I want a full frame. What attracts me the most is the way full frame can capture a subject so well, and so clear and yet still show so much of the environment around them without resorting to distorted focal lengths. When I see photography that really moves me, it almost always captures this ambiance that seems to be unique to full frame. I'm not sure I can really put it into words properly.. Not that I have much confidence in my ability to capture this look, but I figure the right equipment is a good start.


Last edited by dmbaile2; 03-08-2014 at 06:24 PM.
03-08-2014, 06:29 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
I canceled my order for a Canon 6D... Maybe part of me posted this to have some sense talked into me.. Maybe I just have some money burning a hole in my pocket! I guess I just want to have confidence in the future of my equipment, and my confidence is being shaken with Pentax.. In fact, im starting to wonder if this generation of mounts across all DSLRs are in danger. Mirrorless is catching a lot of momentum, when Canon and Nikon decide to dip into this market I wonder if they will try to develop a new mount all together. How long until mirrorless become the new standard? It would be a good excuse for companies to make people invest in new lenses.. uhg...


I'm a little frantic because I would like to have a reliable camera for a road trip that I am going on in a couple of weeks..


A lot of people asked why I want a full frame. What attracts me the most is the way full frame can capture a subject so well, and so clear and yet still show so much of the environment around them without resorting to distorted focal lengths. When I see photography that really moves me, it almost always captures this ambiance that seems to be unique to full frame. I'm not sure I can really put it into words properly.. Not that I have much confidence in my ability to capture this look, but I figure the right equipment is a good start.
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03-08-2014, 08:24 PM   #36
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To the OP, I too used to think that Pentax might not last or that buying into the Canikon ranks might be more stable. The fact remains that our Pentax equipment will last for years more and that the lenses that are available today (that I personally think are a great compromise between size, quality, and speed) will be available as well.

I'll bet that in 10 years, there will be plenty of K-3's around with less than 25000 shutter actuations (so with 90% of their shutter life left) that have sat on a shelf not being used. That means that you can probably get another 15 years out of this system. I guess an argument can be made about the lenses with their lead free solder, but I'm willing to take the risk with the screw drive DA limiteds.

Buy what you want, but I wouldn't worry about being in a system that will be dead.
03-08-2014, 08:39 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Wait... is someone having *Fun* in here!?

QuoteOriginally posted by Parry Quote
This is going to sound ridiculous . . . but . . .

I've found a K-3, a bunch of old M42's (especially the 135mm's like the Tair 11A, Meyer Orestor and Jupiter 11A) and learning to expose the K-3 properly at higher ISO's then using effective noise reduction like Topaz DeNoise in CS6 or just LR5 . . .

. . . well it's doing it for me right now. Really enjoying using the K-3 with these old Soviets, more fun than my FA Limited's. The noise thing isn't perfect, far from it, but it's manageable.

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What you're doing there Parry is having fun with photography! A radical concept!

I love shooting the old Taks and a few of the Russian lenses too. Can't wait to shoot them on a FF Pentax body.

To the OP - if you want FF, get FF. It's a neat format, a powerful format, and can be a very fun format with certain lenses. As can aps-c. Buy what you want, life is far too short.



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03-09-2014, 04:17 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
What you're doing there Parry is having fun with photography! A radical concept!

I love shooting the old Taks and a few of the Russian lenses too. Can't wait to shoot them on a FF Pentax body.

To the OP - if you want FF, get FF. It's a neat format, a powerful format, and can be a very fun format with certain lenses. As can aps-c. Buy what you want, life is far too short.



.
I can wait. I've tamed the full frame beast in me. I have resisted the A7r and Novoflex adapter temptation.

But . . . but I can still feel it there, it's there all the time.

I shall now take my pills.

03-09-2014, 05:52 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
Mirrorless is catching a lot of momentum, when Canon and Nikon decide to dip into this market I wonder if they will try to develop a new mount all together.
Right now, mirrorless isn't making money, for the most part. Canon and Nikon appear to be intentionally avoiding creating the best mirrorless models they could, because they don't want to sabotage their own DSLR sales. The DSLR mounts have a solid future with everyone but Sony.


QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
I'm a little frantic because I would like to have a reliable camera for a road trip that I am going on in a couple of weeks..


A lot of people asked why I want a full frame. What attracts me the most is the way full frame can capture a subject so well, and so clear and yet still show so much of the environment around them without resorting to distorted focal lengths. When I see photography that really moves me, it almost always captures this ambiance that seems to be unique to full frame. I'm not sure I can really put it into words properly.. Not that I have much confidence in my ability to capture this look, but I figure the right equipment is a good start.
It would help if you'd tell us what lenses you have. I can't find it listed in your signature or your profile.


You've haven't been specific about the focal lengths you like, or even the subjects your interested in. So I can only be general here. But I will say this:


Get or rent some lenses for this trip!



If it doesn't work out - if you're not happy with Pentax after that, then fine, change after the trip. And if you have no idea what you want, just get a Sony RX-10!


But before you write off Pentax (or your abilities), try these (I have to generalize, not knowing your exact interests):

Pentax DA*50-135

Pentax DA35 (either one) or FA43

Pentax DA15, Sigma 8-16, or Rokinon 16/2.

Optionally, Pentax DA21

(Alternately, you could get the DA*16-50 instead of the primes).


Don't make excuses about SDM, etc. If you're not using the best glass, you're wasting your K-r.

Last edited by DSims; 03-09-2014 at 06:02 PM.
03-09-2014, 08:57 PM   #40
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I know I know, I didn't really give any details. I was really just venting, getting everything off my chest. I didn't expect the thread to become so heated. My main interests are street photography and landscapes, though im not claiming to be good at either lol

My lens collection:
SMC Pentax-M 50mm F1.7
SMC Pentax-M 28mm F2.8
Super Takumar 50mm F1.4
Super Takumar 55mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-DA 50mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-DA 35mm F2.4 AL
Tamron AF 17-50mm F2.8 XR LD Aspherical IF SP

I only consider to really be invested in the last three. They are the only ones I would sell if I went to a new system. My legacy glass all transfer fairly easily onto other systems. Frankly, my lens collection is one of my biggest motivations to go full frame.

All that said, I think I have made a decision for now.. It's going to sound random but im leaning toward a K-30. I cant rent systems through the summer until September, the K-30 is cheap, the price seems like it is close to bottoming out on the new market. I'll put the money saved in a "new system piggy bank". The K-30 has the features I need as a modest enthusiast. It will get me through the summer. But come September im making a move to FF (yea even though I don't really need to, its my money and my hobby darn it!), whether I stay with Pentax or switch systems is in Ricoh's hands.

Last edited by dmbaile2; 03-09-2014 at 10:03 PM.
03-10-2014, 12:50 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
SMC Pentax-DA 50mm F1.8
SMC Pentax-DA 35mm F2.4 AL
Tamron AF 17-50mm F2.8 XR LD Aspherical IF SP

I only consider to really be invested in the last three. They are the only ones I would sell if I went to a new system. My legacy glass all transfer fairly easily onto other systems. Frankly, my lens collection is one of my biggest motivations to go full frame.

All that said, I think I have made a decision for now.. It's going to sound random but im leaning toward a K-30. I cant rent systems through the summer until September, the K-30 is cheap, the price seems like it is close to bottoming out on the new market. I'll put the money saved in a "new system piggy bank". The K-30 has the features I need as a modest enthusiast. It will get me through the summer. But come September im making a move to FF (yea even though I don't really need to, its my money and my hobby darn it!), whether I stay with Pentax or switch systems is in Ricoh's hands.
So, it is a lens problem! Even for street/landscape, I don't think your 2 primes and a zoom is adequate (a 28/35, a 50, and a standard zoom).

Do you mind telling me what lenses photographers are using with these FF photos that inspire you?



I can't even imagine getting a K-30 in your shoes. Many of the individual lenses I got for my K-x cost me more than your entire lens collecton! And I got many such lenses before upgrading my body.

I'm sorry if I sound too critical here. But I seriously wonder if you're comparing photos taken with $1200-2500 Canon, Nikon, and Sony Zeiss glass to what you have (I think your entire camera kit costs less than one such lens).



In fact, if you hadn't mentioned FF as being the holy grail I would have told you (for your type of shooting) to look at a Fuji system. The X-E1 and X-E2 are very good, and the new X-T1 is excellent. The Zeiss 12/2.8 (or Fuji 14/2.8), Fuji 23/1.4, possibly Zeiss 32/1.8, and upcoming Fuji 56/1.2 would be ideal for you. I dare you to get just one of those lenses and tell me the system stinks! They'll give you incredible IQ. And it has nothing to do with FF (except for the fact that you have to spend $$ in both cases). So don't expect to get similar IQ in Pentax without spending $$ on the lenses as well.

---------- Post added 03-10-14 at 01:30 AM ----------

In fact (and I'm very serious) you have so little invested in Pentax you should just sell it all and get one of the Fuji bodies plus the excellent 18-55/2.8-4 kit lens before your trip. All your Pentax gear is commonly available and could easily be repurchased later if you regret it. Even the new X-T1 is currently in stock with the kit lens at some places. Their kit lens is already as good as or better than most of the Pentax-mount glass you have. And then add at least one of the Fuji-mount primes I mentioned, or the Fuji 60mm macro.

Last edited by DSims; 03-10-2014 at 01:32 AM.
03-10-2014, 05:19 AM   #42
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After everything I have said your advice is to invest in an EVF, APSC system and APSC lenses?? HaHaHa!!!!

Yes my system has little value, I'm only at a point now (graduated from school w/ a decent job) that I can afford to invest real money into a system. With that said, I can't fathom why I would get an xt-1... If I'm going to sell everything, take a small loss, and re-invest why would it be into something I do not want???

And I didn't say I wanted FF for the IQ... I have seen plenty of crap photos taken with limited glass and full frame cameras alike. It's the perspective I want to explore, I'll post some picture and try to describe it better later when I have more time.

Camera value degradation isn't linear, they hold they're value the best when they have bottomed out in price actually. I figure my loss on a k-30 would be about $100 if I buy a new one now and sell in September (I can't say the same about an XT-1). The k-30 is nothing more than a cheap way to get me by until pentax makes a move. Who knows, if pentax does something really special maybe it will make all FF pricing more competitive.
03-10-2014, 06:20 AM   #43
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K-30 is a more than decent option, especially for a travel camera. It's tough, affordable, has great DR, can take AA batteries, and can deliver very high resolution images.

Your existing lenses, in particular the M 50 1.7, DA 50 1.8, DA 35 2.4 and the Tammy 17-50, aren't bad at all. Don't listen to those who suggest that unless you have a full set of $1500 apiece Zeiss lenses, you have rubbish. Use good technique with the lenses you have, don't put crappy UV filters on them, and you have the tools to produce high quality images.
03-10-2014, 06:29 AM - 2 Likes   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
After everything I have said your advice is to invest in an EVF, APSC system and APSC lenses?? HaHaHa!!!!

Yes my system has little value, I'm only at a point now (graduated from school w/ a decent job) that I can afford to invest real money into a system. With that said, I can't fathom why I would get an xt-1... If I'm going to sell everything, take a small loss, and re-invest why would it be into something I do not want???

And I didn't say I wanted FF for the IQ... I have seen plenty of crap photos taken with limited glass and full frame cameras alike. It's the perspective I want to explore, I'll post some picture and try to describe it better later when I have more time.

Camera value degradation isn't linear, they hold they're value the best when they have bottomed out in price actually. I figure my loss on a k-30 would be about $100 if I buy a new one now and sell in September (I can't say the same about an XT-1). The k-30 is nothing more than a cheap way to get me by until pentax makes a move. Who knows, if pentax does something really special maybe it will make all FF pricing more competitive.
In my experience, the only thing that matters is the image, the final image. People outside of photography hardly ever ask about the camera or lens which was used, for the good reason that it doesn't matter. Locking up all your spare cash in camera equipment is depriving yourself of many opportunities to use what you have already through travel, treats and special events, etc. Another avenue to explore is black-and-while photography where the rendering qualities of high-end lenses for which folks pay $$$ matter far less than a strong composition that's just made for the b/w treatment. Any item on the equipment you list could produce a killer b/w image as good as any you'll see elsewhere. TBH, the same is really true of colour images, too. If they hit the spot, they're good. No one (except for loonies) will ask about the focus transition qualities of lens A versus lens B, the CA levels in pixels, the distortion percentages, etc, etc.

An option to consider is keeping what you have for at least a year, or until you have quite a lot more spare income, perhaps selling 2-3 of your manual lenses in the meantime and spending the money on a weekend out somewhere you can really use your cam. There's a ton of gear lust and utter BS out on the net to do with photography (and just about everything else). Say no to it all. Of course if you find that Pentax is simply not for you, or if you get offered an amazing deal you can fully afford, then it might be silly not to consider a switch. But the same things will still apply, I think.

Last edited by mecrox; 03-10-2014 at 06:36 AM.
03-10-2014, 06:36 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
After everything I have said your advice is to invest in an EVF, APSC system and APSC lenses?? HaHaHa!!!!

Yes my system has little value, I'm only at a point now (graduated from school w/ a decent job) that I can afford to invest real money into a system. With that said, I can't fathom why I would get an xt-1... If I'm going to sell everything, take a small loss, and re-invest why would it be into something I do not want???

And I didn't say I wanted FF for the IQ... I have seen plenty of crap photos taken with limited glass and full frame cameras alike. It's the perspective I want to explore, I'll post some picture and try to describe it better later when I have more time.

Camera value degradation isn't linear, they hold they're value the best when they have bottomed out in price actually. I figure my loss on a k-30 would be about $100 if I buy a new one now and sell in September (I can't say the same about an XT-1). The k-30 is nothing more than a cheap way to get me by until pentax makes a move. Who knows, if pentax does something really special maybe it will make all FF pricing more competitive.
I don't know that I would get an Xt-1 at this point, at least not if you are OK with an optical viewfinder. I do think looking at some nicer lenses is going to get you the biggest improvement in photos. I have no idea what focal lengths work best for you, but there would be better lenses at most every focal length than what you have now.

You will see some improvement with a K30 versus your current camera -- better viewfinder, faster operation, better live view, but I still think glass is where it is at...
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