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03-10-2014, 07:07 AM - 1 Like   #46
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Hey I have a suggestion for you... do some experimentation before spending the big bucks on FF. From your current collection of lenses it seems like you tried to get a feel of Pentax without spending too much money. How about having the same approach to FF and if it works out, then go out and spend your heart out?

Get a Pentax film camera like the ZX5, ZX-M or Super Program that can control the aperture on your lenses, and a few rolls of Kodak Ektar or Portra. Get out with those 50s and the 35 and the 28 and shoot some scenes and some people. As you know, both DA lenses work on full frame as long as the camera can set the aperture for you. On the other lenses where you got the aperture ring, you're fine and could use an older mechanical camera like the K1000 or MX or Super ME.

After you get the films developed, see if the "full frame perspective" is all that it's hyped to be. If it is, get that Canon... as with all things digital, don't worry that the 6D is going to cost more in two months than it does now. Prices always go down, as the newest and hottest thing comes out and there will always be deals on bundled lenses.

That's what I'm doing... the problem is, film is scratching my FF itch, and I see no need to invest a ton of money anymore, plus the film bug is quite contageous and so far I've spent most of the time on cheap film... but it's so much fun...

03-10-2014, 07:11 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
After everything I have said your advice is to invest in an EVF, APSC system and APSC lenses?? HaHaHa!!!!

Yes my system has little value, I'm only at a point now (graduated from school w/ a decent job) that I can afford to invest real money into a system. With that said, I can't fathom why I would get an xt-1... If I'm going to sell everything, take a small loss, and re-invest why would it be into something I do not want???

And I didn't say I wanted FF for the IQ... I have seen plenty of crap photos taken with limited glass and full frame cameras alike. It's the perspective I want to explore, I'll post some picture and try to describe it better later when I have more time.

Camera value degradation isn't linear, they hold they're value the best when they have bottomed out in price actually. I figure my loss on a k-30 would be about $100 if I buy a new one now and sell in September (I can't say the same about an XT-1). The k-30 is nothing more than a cheap way to get me by until pentax makes a move. Who knows, if pentax does something really special maybe it will make all FF pricing more competitive.
In that case, get the K30.

Unless you want that shallow DOF look (for the same FOV), aps-c does most things well enough not to matter. (I have both)

If you do travel, landscapes, birding, FF/APS-C matters little.
Often, the smaller package of a Pentax APS-C+lenses is welcome.
The DOF control advantage is not that important for the genres I mentioned above.

I often only use FF for that shallow DOF 'look' when taking shots of my family.
Streets and macro, I prefer the Q
Travel shots and landscape, I don't really care if its apsc or FF. (so long as the sensor is good and I packed the right focal lengths)
03-10-2014, 07:33 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't know that I would get an Xt-1 at this point, at least not if you are OK with an optical viewfinder. I do think looking at some nicer lenses is going to get you the biggest improvement in photos. I have no idea what focal lengths work best for you, but there would be better lenses at most every focal length than what you have now.

You will see some improvement with a K30 versus your current camera -- better viewfinder, faster operation, better live view, but I still think glass is where it is at...


I don't disagree. I'd love some limited glass, and now I can finally afford some. But investing thousands of dollars In primo FF glass from a company that won't show me a FF camera makes no sense to me.

The way I see it, I'm ready to make a big investment. But it will not be in an APSC system, and it won't be with a company who's FF plans are only a dream shrouded in mystery. Not when so many other manufactures have me covered. That's just how I see it... As a consumer I feel like there's nothing wrong with buying what I want. People put a lot of time and energy on this forum telling others why they don't need FF. When in reality it's a moot point. We don't need a lot of things, photography as a hobby is all about wants, not needs...
03-10-2014, 07:47 AM   #49
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Buy what you can afford, take the photo you want, everyone's happy

03-10-2014, 07:53 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
I don't disagree. I'd love some limited glass, and now I can finally afford some. But investing thousands of dollars In primo FF glass from a company that won't show me a FF camera makes no sense to me.

The way I see it, I'm ready to make a big investment. But it will not be in an APSC system, and it won't be with a company who's FF plans are only a dream shrouded in mystery. Not when so many other manufactures have me covered. That's just how I see it... As a consumer I feel like there's nothing wrong with buying what I want. People put a lot of time and energy on this forum telling others why they don't need FF. When in reality it's a moot point. We don't need a lot of things, photography as a hobby is all about wants, not needs...
Don't let it bug you too much. people get on this forum all the time just to denigrate the ... topic of this forum.

The K-30 is a great camera and your lenses are all excellent-value lenses. If you're thinking of selling in a few months buy the lowest level product you can stand and buy used if possible, as I think you know.

Good luck.
03-10-2014, 08:34 AM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Don't let it bug you too much. people get on this forum all the time just to denigrate the ... topic of this forum.

The K-30 is a great camera and your lenses are all excellent-value lenses. If you're thinking of selling in a few months buy the lowest level product you can stand and buy used if possible, as I think you know.

Good luck.
I can't put any numbers on what percentage of shots can be taken with APS-C versus full frame. I fully expect Pentax to reveal a full frame camera this fall and we'll see how many folks really "need" it, particularly if it isn't the cheap variety.

The thing is that for the OP, I just don't think a particular camera body is standing in his way. Lack of glass maybe...

One thing I will say for Pentax glass -- I think it benefits from being APS-C and relatively slow, in the sense that having glass between you and your light source tends to make your lens more resistant to flare, which can be handy in the right situation.


03-10-2014, 03:04 PM   #52
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Well, if the OP is ready to try the FF waters and has the means to invest in it, then I won't blame him one bit for it All the reasons stated for going for it seem to make perfect sense.

Just remember to come back in the future to update on how things have worked out for you. I'm sure they will work out fine, Canon and Nikon make great glass and know a thing or two about cameras
03-10-2014, 07:28 PM   #53
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I'm no expert on full frame, but my inclination in the OP shoes would be to get a nikon d800e. From what I hear it's great for landscapes. I also think that the UI would be better because of the 'pro' interface.

Based on the photozone.de review of their cheapish 24 (which is a focal length I like a lot), I'd want to save up for the expensive one or wait for a f/1.8 version to come out. The wide zoom is supposed to be nice too. A buddy at work loves his D600 because of the ultra low noise and the blacks being 'really black'.

I guess what I'm really driving at is that I'd make the decision based on UI first. I prefer Nikon's 'pro' UI personally. I do think that Nikon has a slight hole in fastish/mid-priced consumer wide angle primes, which would make me think a little harder about buying into the system.

03-10-2014, 07:40 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by drugal Quote
get a nikon d800e. From what I hear it's great for landscapes.
It is.

QuoteOriginally posted by drugal Quote
I also think that the UI would be better because of the 'pro' interface.
It isn't. It's dreadful.

QuoteOriginally posted by drugal Quote
I do think that Nikon has a slight hole in fastish/mid-priced consumer wide angle primes, which would make me think a little harder about buying into the system.
What are you looking for in a prime that they don't offer? Some of sigma's primes in that area aren't the best but they can still beat up on APS-C stuff.
03-10-2014, 08:07 PM   #55
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Yeah, what's wrong with the Nikkor 20mm f/2.8 or the 24mm f/2.8? Or the 28 2.8? Or the 28 1.8? I think all those qualify as mid-priced fastish primes… and the lineup isn't that different from Canon's...
03-10-2014, 08:49 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
Yes my system has little value, I'm only at a point now (graduated from school w/ a decent job) that I can afford to invest real money into a system. With that said, I can't fathom why I would get an xt-1... If I'm going to sell everything, take a small loss, and re-invest why would it be into something I do not want???

And I didn't say I wanted FF for the IQ... I have seen plenty of crap photos taken with limited glass and full frame cameras alike. It's the perspective I want to explore, I'll post some picture and try to describe it better later when I have more time.
Whatever you get, have fun!



You've got me really curious now about what you're looking for in photos. Can you please post a few links or examples - even if they're not ideal examples?


QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
The way I see it, I'm ready to make a big investment. But it will not be in an APSC system, and it won't be with a company who's FF plans are only a dream shrouded in mystery.
However, don't kid yourself - a FF is coming. But I can't assure you you'll like it.
03-10-2014, 09:03 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Hey I have a suggestion for you... do some experimentation before spending the big bucks on FF. From your current collection of lenses it seems like you tried to get a feel of Pentax without spending too much money. How about having the same approach to FF and if it works out, then go out and spend your heart out?

Get a Pentax film camera like the ZX5, ZX-M or Super Program that can control the aperture on your lenses, and a few rolls of Kodak Ektar or Portra. Get out with those 50s and the 35 and the 28 and shoot some scenes and some people. As you know, both DA lenses work on full frame as long as the camera can set the aperture for you. On the other lenses where you got the aperture ring, you're fine and could use an older mechanical camera like the K1000 or MX or Super ME.

After you get the films developed, see if the "full frame perspective" is all that it's hyped to be. If it is, get that Canon... as with all things digital, don't worry that the 6D is going to cost more in two months than it does now. Prices always go down, as the newest and hottest thing comes out and there will always be deals on bundled lenses.

That's what I'm doing... the problem is, film is scratching my FF itch, and I see no need to invest a ton of money anymore, plus the film bug is quite contageous and so far I've spent most of the time on cheap film... but it's so much fun...
The MZ(ZX)5 will not control the aperatures of a DA lens, one needs a model like the MZ7 instead. The 5 will shot everythingn wide open. I bought a MZ7 with a couple of lenses just so that I could use it with our digital lenses as the MZ5n did not so well.

The rest of your sugesstion is great
03-10-2014, 09:36 PM - 1 Like   #58
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Bah....! OP, if you have the budget for a FF digital from the CaNikony camp, i believe it should be enough to get you a 645D+75/2.8..
03-10-2014, 10:17 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by SyncGuy Quote
Bah....! OP, if you have the budget for a FF digital from the CaNikony camp, i believe it should be enough to get you a 645D+75/2.8..
Plus you need to lend it to us every other weekend for all our great advice!




EDIT: Sorry, my mistake - the 645D is not a FF either! Need to go looking for a Phase One now ...
03-10-2014, 10:34 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by dmbaile2 Quote
I don't disagree. I'd love some limited glass, and now I can finally afford some. But investing thousands of dollars In primo FF glass from a company that won't show me a FF camera makes no sense to me.

The way I see it, I'm ready to make a big investment. But it will not be in an APSC system, and it won't be with a company who's FF plans are only a dream shrouded in mystery. Not when so many other manufactures have me covered. That's just how I see it... As a consumer I feel like there's nothing wrong with buying what I want. People put a lot of time and energy on this forum telling others why they don't need FF. When in reality it's a moot point. We don't need a lot of things, photography as a hobby is all about wants, not needs...
Looks like you already have you thoughts worked out.

Its either Aps-c and embrace all the aps-c lenses for what they are (smaller for Pentax) or go FF for what it gives.
The worst may be to be stuck in the middle like what you have described above.

But look at it this way.
So what if 77ltd is actually 77mm and not 115mm and 43ltd was really 43mm and not 65mm.
As a photographer, YOU make the decision of buying and using the lenses for the FL characteristics on the format you use.
I use the 43/77ltd happily on aps-c, framing it accordingly to what the format give me. - PEACE...
I don't go hopping mad that somebody somewhere (namely Pentax) owes me this or that because its 'Really' 43mm or 77mm.
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