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08-29-2014, 11:30 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
That camera combined sensor and lens.


Maybe not everyone would buy this to switch sensors, some would just buy one sensor. But they can pick the one sensor they want. Why are there so many fights about MP? Some people want 12 MP, some want 36. Different needs. Separating body and sensor could make it easier to accommodate for that. Maybe offer another body for the same sensors. One mirrorless, one DSLR.
What make you think that they would release sensor units for every available sensor on the market? They would only release a limited set of sensor units. Probably not more than 1-2 for each sensor size. So you would probably not have access to more sensors than today.

QuoteQuote:
A cartridge system would make the most sense I guess.
The problem it that everything in the camera that need specific parts for the sensor has to be included in the cartridge. FI it the sensor is to be stabilized the mechanics for that has to be included in the cartridge. A large part of the electronics, and the shutter probably also have to be included. And for a DSLR unit, mirror and OVF has to be included. so they probably also will include the lens mount.

But I really doubt they will try to design a sensor "cartridge" for DSLR, it more likely for a brand new mirrorless system, but on the other hand it will not make much sense as most of the expensive parts will have to be included in the cartridge. A cartridge that cost 80-90% of a complete camera might not be very competitive as if you get a complete camera unit it will include other improvements than a new sensor. And sensor cartridge + camera unit will probably be 25-50% more expensive than a complete camera with fixed sensor.

QuoteQuote:
As for IR photography... as long as the sensor itself is unchanged, turn the IR filter into, well, a filter. Make it removable. The cartridge could accommodate that. Take out the sensor (you're able to clean it too that way!) and remove or add the filter, or even use other filters.
If they design a cartridge I would expect them to design it so that the sensor is covered when removing the cartridge, To prevent dust entering the cartridge, and to minimize risk of sensor damage.

QuoteQuote:
The possibilities are endless, the question is if some manufacturer has the balls to do it. I do think it would find a market... I'd be willing to spend a bit more on a camera that offers me that amount of flexibility. Perhaps even if that means changing brands.


@john: But you could take out the sensor, and clean it. Without having to fumble through a long tunnel. You have very easy access to it.
The possibilities are endless, but are there any profit in this? Do you think any manufacturer would release sensor units that only would sell a few hundreds of units a year? You probably won't have access to much more sensors with a sensor cartridge than you have today. If sensor cartridges will be the norm in the future, I'm pretty sure each brand will have their own cartridge system so it will not be any major difference from today. But I really doubt it, as it will make camera more expensive, and the majority of users are not interested in swapping sensors in their cameras.

QuoteQuote:
One problem for Pentax would be that stabilizing that thing will be hard. The cartridge will add weight, and that's what you don't want. Also getting rid of the heat will be difficult, though you already have that problem with the SR system. Air cooling perhaps...
SR will have to be included in the cartridge, otherwise they will have to drop sensor stabilization.

09-01-2014, 02:09 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
What make you think that they would release sensor units for every available sensor on the market? They would only release a limited set of sensor units. Probably not more than 1-2 for each sensor size. So you would probably not have access to more sensors than today.
Even if they would only release two different types of those sensor-cartridges per generation. That would be a myriad of possible sensor/lens combinations after a few years.
And we're talking about Pentax... The one that guarentees backwards compatibility for older lenses. So I'm assuming they won't be changing "sensor mounts" every few years either.


QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The problem it that everything in the camera that need specific parts for the sensor has to be included in the cartridge. FI it the sensor is to be stabilized the mechanics for that has to be included in the cartridge. A large part of the electronics, and the shutter probably also have to be included. And for a DSLR unit, mirror and OVF has to be included. so they probably also will include the lens mount.
Fair point. Yes it would probably mean no more SR and no mirror. I don't know why it should include the mount too. But even if so: exchangable mounts? Cool!


QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
And sensor cartridge + camera unit will probably be 25-50% more expensive than a complete camera with fixed sensor.
Sounds fair. Just like a ILC is more expensive then a point and shoot. Imagine the after market sales for Pentax!

QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
as it will make camera more expensive, and the majority of users are not interested in swapping sensors in their cameras.
Ever since digital we've been unable to exchange the surface with which the image is recorded. Prior to that it was the most common thing to do however. And often people did carry along different types of film to switch according to their needs. Even in the field. In this aspect the conversion to digital hasn't been fully completed yet. And in this respect the proposal for exchangable media doesn't seem all that awkward at all. More like a requirement that still needs to be resolved.

The full package might be more expensive initially, yes. But when a new sensor comes out and the user wants to upgrade it will no longer include a completely new camera. The same way a DSLR+lens combination is more expensive then a fixed lens camera, but is cheaper if you are going to be using multiple lenses.
09-01-2014, 07:17 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Ever since digital we've been unable to exchange the surface with which the image is recorded. Prior to that it was the most common thing to do however. And often people did carry along different types of film to switch according to their needs. Even in the field. In this aspect the conversion to digital hasn't been fully completed yet. And in this respect the proposal for exchangable media doesn't seem all that awkward at all. More like a requirement that still needs to be resolved.

The full package might be more expensive initially, yes. But when a new sensor comes out and the user wants to upgrade it will no longer include a completely new camera. The same way a DSLR+lens combination is more expensive then a fixed lens camera, but is cheaper if you are going to be using multiple lenses..
99% of the need to carry different films back in the days have been replaced by being able to change ISO and being able to set different color "profiles" in camera (or in PP).
I'm not sure anyone would think it would be a advantage having to go back to switch media to change settings.

As camera technology advance fast, I'm not sure there is many users that would be satisfied by using latest sensors in outdated cameras. New cameras with faster processors can achieve faster AF. EVF tech advances fast, better connectivity (wifi, blutooth, 4K hdmi...), GPS and many other new features make cameras become outdated fast. And you might miss out some features on the latest sensor if using them in older camera units.

Would you be interested in investing in a new $800 senor unit for an old K10D, or replace K10D with K-3 for $1000.
09-01-2014, 08:33 AM - 2 Likes   #244
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What could be different about a Pentax FF?

Well, it could have an APS-C sensor and some green LEDs on the front...

09-01-2014, 11:41 AM - 1 Like   #245
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If they're going to make something interchangeable it more likely would be the viewfinder(s). If they could figure out how to do a EVF interchangeable with a series of OVF's like the LX it would be - game changing, I think.
09-01-2014, 12:54 PM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If they're going to make something interchangeable it more likely would be the viewfinder(s). If they could figure out how to do a EVF interchangeable with a series of OVF's like the LX it would be - game changing, I think.

I agree with monochrome, interchangeable viewfinders would be absolutely amazing. It be cool if you could swap grips as well, but even I think that's asking to much.
09-01-2014, 02:38 PM   #247
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I would say, they should make a K-3-style Full Frame with the LED-Tech from the KS-1. Yeah. i like it... and i don't care what all those brainwashed people who say it looks quirky. Just take a look at the pentax site and look at the K-S1 in denim style. Look at the pictures for about 30 sec. and try to see the whole camera and imagine it in your hands. I neither think it looks quirky nor do i think the LED's look childish. (Though the colours should be customisable.) Remember Photography once used to be fun. (Before everybody wanted to be the next Helmut Newton.)
I like the idea that that the camera indicates video mode or photo mode with the LED's around the main button(shutter release) and i like the new mode dial next to the display.(Yes it is a shame that it is missing a second wheel on the front for quickly manipulating shutter time and overall the wheel is a bad idea on the back)
And the rest... Just imagine all of the K-3's technical features with a full frame sensor... Isn't that enough? I think it is. Some would also wish for a Crop Mode. when he wants to use a recent DA-Zoom lens. or some of those wide angle lenses. The AA (anti-aliasing) filter simulator ...mhmmmm :-D
I would also like to see a user removable ir-filter like many people who have a look at astrophotography...
And one more axis for shake reduction.(Which could also be used for a slight tilt effect. and some kind of slight 3D bracketing...don't beat me for that one, i am no scientist.>just 'n idea)
So, let's go on. Weather Resistancy(no question), Bumpers that protect the camera when it falls down onto the ground. And hey,... why not make it really water resistant?
Just like the Nikon AW 1... But this time down to 30metres please. Just go to a photo store and take a look at the AW 1... and then think about an elevated mount with 2 o-rings around it...like the one on the AW 1.
4K Video Mode...
A new mirror technology alike Kent Optronics - Switchable Mirror / Switchable Glass but so that the mirror could also be used the traditional way...
Lightpainting mode, where you take a sample shot of the light source u will use to "paint" and than you give it the time u will need to do the whole action and the camera computes shutter time, aperture and if needed, what ND Filter you would need to use.
Lenses with filter mounts for smart glass. How dense exactly would you like your ND filter. Custom graduated filters...
Built in WLAN...
NFC... and not only for connecting to your mobile device.. just imagine. NFC-Tags that invoke custom defined user modes.
Custom noise patterns(according to the situation/location the camera is in. That would concern electromagnetic radiation, lighting amount and kind of light) for in cam noise reduction.
Focus Level Bracketing.!!!!
And think what you want about me, i still think that intelligent autozoom(and power zoom) is still a huge idea, and now it would be just the right time for it, since SDM technology is mature now. (would make some people smile, when you think about what happened with AF.... Pentax was also first.. and now.. Powerzoom. -> Nikon recently did another attempt with some Nikon 1 lens... "1 NIKKOR VR 10–100 mm 1:4,5–5,6 PD-ZOOM")
Built in variable Flash with a guide number around 20, that sports HSS and strobing.
Firmware that allows tagging photos with predefined keywords, when reviewing photos.
built in ftp and stock service upload function.

Maybe i could write a little more... But i will stop it now, because i gotta go to sleep now.

That is what could be different. I think so. ;-)
09-01-2014, 10:23 PM   #248
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Power zoom is a video feature, which is a bit pointless as long as Pentax sucks at video. Same with 4K video. They can't even get the basics right.


As for interchangeable sensors: I think creating a mount that allows for long term swapping of sensors will be really hard. Sensors may have to get a faster connection to the camera perhaps. Maybe 1, 2 generations of backward compatibility are possible, much more than that... I doubt it. Unless you pack more parts into the sensor, like the processor (which, too, is responsible for image quality). Then SR gets really impossible, and the price goes up.

09-02-2014, 03:07 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Power zoom is a video feature, which is a bit pointless as long as Pentax sucks at video. Same with 4K video. They can't even get the basics right.


As for interchangeable sensors: I think creating a mount that allows for long term swapping of sensors will be really hard. Sensors may have to get a faster connection to the camera perhaps. Maybe 1, 2 generations of backward compatibility are possible, much more than that... I doubt it. Unless you pack more parts into the sensor, like the processor (which, too, is responsible for image quality). Then SR gets really impossible, and the price goes up.
Sounds to me, that you woke up in the digital era. Powerzoom was already here long ago(film era). Every Pentax FA Zoom lens featured Powerzoom. There were also "Intelligent Autozoom" lenses for Pentax from SIGMA. So it is not alone a video feature. It was also used to hold a focused object....
blah..
wt... am i writing here? See the C&P from the FA-Manual:
1. Zoom clip mode to pre-set or re-call the focal length
2. Image size tracking mode to maintain the image size (magnification value) regardless of the distance to the subject.
3. Zoom effect mode to zoom automatically during an exposure.
And with the SDM technology that is mature now, people would maybe really like those features and use them.
Besides, K-3 does good at video according to what i have heard. On the K-3 you can also do AF during video mode(That would also make sense only with SDM lenses.)
What basics are that exactly? I am not doing video for now.(Only 2 times, one time with a manual M42-Tokina, but it was looking nice also.
Good 4K video capability needs a special sensor resolution(A7S, GH4.., so the camera's processor can cope with the data.)

But i agree that it would be a totally bad idea to do interchangeable sensors... Totally nonsense... Unless u want to make a video camera out of your photography tool or you want to go IR.
09-02-2014, 03:54 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
What basics are that exactly?
The focus peaking turns off while recording; the shake reduction tracks faces and hands in close-ups, making the shake reduction worse than useless; the bit rate on the video is much too low. I suppose it's just those three things, haha, but the focus peaking and shake reduction are supposed to be selling points, and the bit rate is shameful.
09-02-2014, 04:28 PM   #251
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So fulltime/optional:
- focus peaking
- zebras
- uncompressed hdmi out
- S-log or other means of DR preservation
- user pickable codec
- Decent audio monitoring & adjustments (when no external recorder is used)
- waveform display (heh...I kid...)

I didn't know the SR was so broken; I have a K-5 and the SR seems to work quite well. Can the link between tracking and SR be disabled?
09-02-2014, 05:23 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
What could be different about a Pentax FF?

Well, it could have an APS-C sensor and some green LEDs on the front...
lol

.
09-02-2014, 05:47 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by noser Quote
Can the link between tracking and SR be disabled?
I have scoured the manual looking for a way to do this. I've also tried each af option, and it doesn't seem to matter—the problem is still there. Hmm, the issue is easy to duplicate if you have it. Just hold the camera with one hand, focus on your other hand, and move your hand around. Your SR will track your hand. Oh, you will have to playback the footage, because the problem does not show up in live view. Once in a while I've seen footage with this problem. I have a vague memory that this was a problem I ran into ages ago on video cameras, but I could be wrong. There has been speculation in the forums that mechanical SR is one of the holdups on ff, and hence, I'm extrapolating, the shift to this mediocre software SR, which is a curse until you know about it, and then, when you know about it, eliminates SR for, uh, ha, shots of people.
09-02-2014, 06:39 PM - 1 Like   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
Just hold the camera with one hand, focus on your other hand, and move your hand around. Your SR will track your hand.
So that's the weird thing that folks have been saying about software SR in K-3 video...

If the camera is on a tripod and there is no motion of the camera at all, does it still try to lock onto hands and use software SR to keep the target centered? And faces too? That's messed up. I can't imagine how face detection would be tricked by a hand... maybe it's just the motion.

Is the fix to just turn off SR entirely?
09-03-2014, 05:18 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by noser Quote
If the camera is on a tripod and there is no motion of the camera at all, does it still try to lock onto hands and use software SR to keep the target centered?
If the camera is on a tripod, SR should be off anyway, but if you test SR with a tripod, you'll find the locking on faces and hands is far worse. On the flip side, if you hold the camera in your hand and shake enough, the hands and face locking effect goes away. Ha, but that doesn't seem like a technique worth mastering. Also, if you're far enough away from the subject, the effect goes away. I don't know exactly what that distance is—maybe a head-to-toe distance or even farther.

Yes, the solution is no SR entirely. There is Shake Reduction in edit software, but it's slow and clunky. It's better to deal with shake in the lens or in the body.
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