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10-05-2014, 06:39 PM   #481
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
When the 5DII first came out I saw a lot of people using that for HD video, but that appears to have been a phase. The guys who progressed are no longer using DSLRs and the others went back to doing predominately stills. It was something everyone was trying to do for a few years, but I don't see it nearly as much now.
Some broadcast news divisions (primary networks) in the USA experimented with 5D's for remote shoots. They found them unsuitable for the work - their camera operators had trouble focusing and properly controlling exposure - so they returned to traditional dedicated video equipment. *


* One network preferred the Canon color profile and consequently digitally emulates it.

10-05-2014, 06:50 PM   #482
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Without great video it won't be pro equipment
Sigh.

I don't see many sporting pros at the Olympics or the US Open tennis shooting video. Or the photojournalist pros at the White House Press Gallery. And most wedding pros may only do video as a side option, not their main professional service.

And a camera with good video doesn't help you produce a front page cover for Sports Illustrated or Vogue. And most brides want images or prints, not just a DVD.
10-05-2014, 07:12 PM   #483
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
The 645Z has 1080p video.

Ready for the "no true scotsman" argument on what "proper video functionality" is.
It does have 1080p video, but with pretty horrible results. There's a ton of line skipping going on there to get from 50 MP to 2 MP, because the sensor can't be fully read 30 times a second, and the processor probably wouldn't be able to convert that to the 2 MP anyway. As a result low light performance/dynamic range is bad, aliasing, moire is there, etc.


I've seen German TV stations use DSLRs for documentaries, news etc. No issues there, and the footage looks good.


Not every photographer is doing the Olympics, US Open or other big sports events, or the front page cover for Sports Illustrated or Vogue. Also not every photojournalist is standing at the White House. On the high end I fully agree, there will be a specialist for stills, and one for video, and they use dedicated gear. But there's a lot in between. Lauren in this forum btw. shoots corporate videos for Oracle, and she and her team is using Pentax (AFAIK for her Pentax offers an advantage due to the way they work with remotes, while she can work around the issues due to the style of shooting and the gear she uses).

Last edited by kadajawi; 10-05-2014 at 07:25 PM.
10-06-2014, 06:35 AM   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Without great video it won't be pro equipment, and Pentax has a great track record of f*cking up in terms of video. Pentax is in the business of making gear for hobbyists.
Take pill dude. There's a difference between not being interested in a feature and "f*cking up". Pnetax has indicated, they aren't putting money into developing video. If that's where you're going, buy something else. You're developing a great track record of discussing stuff, many Pentax shooters care nothing about. This is a Pentax forum. If, we cared about video we'd be using something else. Although I have to say, Pentax video is fine for my use. I'm not sure what's wrong with these folks who complain all the time about it not being good enough. it's good enough for my home use.

Not good enough for yours? Maybe you should be taking lessons from me. I'll dumb you down to a level where you realize you can shoot video with a Pentax. Some smart people are too smart for their own good.

A Bejikan Video shot on a K-3, man it sucks so bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByaPS4zOcsk#t=16

The question becomes, are you one of those folks who just goes out and "does" or are you one of those folks who just sits around a criticizes. Where do I find you portfolio of great videos that couldn't have been shot on a Pentax? Or are you just repeating the drivel others post on-line?


Last edited by normhead; 10-06-2014 at 06:54 AM.
10-06-2014, 07:06 AM - 1 Like   #485
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I don't see many sporting pros at the Olympics or the US Open tennis shooting video.
This is not allowed because of rights bought by tv networks. Coming wednesday I'm going to UEFA Womens Championsleague Game and I'm not allowed to shoot video.
10-06-2014, 07:07 AM   #486
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Originally posted by kadajawi
Without great video it won't be pro equipment, and Pentax has a great track record of f*cking up in terms of video. Pentax is in the business of making gear for hobbyists.
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Pnetax has indicated, they aren't putting money into developing video.
The video is incredibly important to the market, and many people care about it, but I actually feel much better out the video side of the camera now that Pentax has come clean about their lack of commitment to that direction. (With the K3, however, they were making claims on video, so people were bound to be disappointed in a few areas.) What does a lack of commitment mean practically? It means that the Pentax video specs will continue to be 2-4 years behind. So if you want the bitrate and the 4k on a Pentax, you'll be waiting at least 2 years, and maybe 4. When the sensors and processors are so powerful that Pentax can deliver that stuff as an afterthought, you'll have it. And by the way, once you have that the video is useful to wedding photographers etc, who can shoot video and pull high resolution images from stills, like fashion photographers with 4k cameras are doing right now.
10-06-2014, 07:27 AM - 1 Like   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
The video is incredibly important to the market, and many people care about it, but I actually feel much better out the video side of the camera now that Pentax has come clean about their lack of commitment to that direction. (With the K3, however, they were making claims on video, so people were bound to be disappointed in a few areas.) What does a lack of commitment mean practically? It means that the Pentax video specs will continue to be 2-4 years behind. So if you want the bitrate and the 4k on a Pentax, you'll be waiting at least 2 years, and maybe 4. When the sensors and processors are so powerful that Pentax can deliver that stuff as an afterthought, you'll have it. And by the way, once you have that the video is useful to wedding photographers etc, who can shoot video and pull high resolution images from stills, like fashion photographers with 4k cameras are doing right now.
Pentax basicly has two electronic highways inside the camera's.
- PRIME M(II) for 12 bit RAW in K-01, K-30, K-50, K-500 and now K-S1
- PRIME III for 14-bit RAW in K-3 and 645Z.

Both processors are not capable to handle 4k video in a way that it is practicle. Or the sensors inside the camera don't pull out the data fast enough. So a next generation processing engine will, but those will be seen at Photokina 2016. Maybe earlier if the market demands 4k video, but it is cheaper to run these electronic systems for a few more years, since the number of camera's sold isn't so high to make it cheap enough to upgrade a faster tempo.
10-06-2014, 07:31 AM - 1 Like   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Pentax basicly has two electronic highways inside the camera's.
- PRIME M(II) for 12 bit RAW in K-01, K-30, K-50, K-500 and now K-S1
- PRIME III for 14-bit RAW in K-3 and 645Z.

Both processors are not capable to handle 4k video in a way that it is practicle. Or the sensors inside the camera don't pull out the data fast enough. So a next generation processing engine will, but those will be seen at Photokina 2016. Maybe earlier if the market demands 4k video, but it is cheaper to run these electronic systems for a few more years, since the number of camera's sold isn't so high to make it cheap enough to upgrade a faster tempo.
Adam should set up the Forum so this Reply auto-responds to every post about bad Pentax video.

10-06-2014, 07:55 AM   #489
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Pentax basicly has two electronic highways inside the camera's.
- PRIME M(II) for 12 bit RAW in K-01, K-30, K-50, K-500 and now K-S1
- PRIME III for 14-bit RAW in K-3 and 645Z.

Both processors are not capable to handle 4k video in a way that it is practicle. Or the sensors inside the camera don't pull out the data fast enough. So a next generation processing engine will, but those will be seen at Photokina 2016. Maybe earlier if the market demands 4k video, but it is cheaper to run these electronic systems for a few more years, since the number of camera's sold isn't so high to make it cheap enough to upgrade a faster tempo.
Currently Fujitsu Milbeaut generation 7 is running inside K-3 (we assume, didn't look into specs to find out).

http://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/devices/semiconductor/assp/milbeaut/

10-06-2014, 08:37 AM   #490
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It isn't just Pentax, IIRC, during the Nikon Photokina interview there was statement about 4K video wasn't something Nikon thought their customers needed at the moment, forget the exact wording.

In the Sony forums, i see a lot of criticism of Sony lenses for attributes that are useful for video but not for stills. Features like clickless apertures, motorized zooms, less concern over corners than lens weight perhaps, etc.

I feel a bit sympathetic to the mfr, being pulled in both video and still directions at the same time. At the playhouse, i shoot stills at, if they're going to have video, they always schedule video and stills for different rehearsal nights. The noise from the shutters and still shooters moving around are not compatible with the video work. Also, getting permission to do videos of live plays is very difficult requiring authroization from actor guilds, playwrights, etc. And more fees. So when videos are made for theater websites, they are basically interviews with actors and candid scenes of work on the stage, etc. I'd also mention the skill set is different for videographers and still shooters. I'm not saying one person can't do both, but there are differences. And also for processing.

If you are a professional, i would imagine the equipment used would favor video work, constant led lighting vice flashes, better mikes and remote mikes, different tripods perhaps, etc. For a professional, i can't see why one wouldn't have a video-cam just for that purpose. Its different if you are out in the woods, than minimizing travel weight is essential. But if you transport your equipment by car, then having specialized equipment is not that big of deal.

I think we are driving ourselves nuts trying to buy a single set of equipment that meets both needs. Plus it compromises the design of the equipment itself. Sure, its possible to do both with one camera, but there are compromises that will need to be made. Frankly, i haven't met anyone who is doing both in a professional capacity.
10-06-2014, 09:34 AM   #491
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Frankly, i haven't met anyone who is doing both in a professional capacity.
I was 100% with you until that last bit. Everyone I know who shoots stills professionally also shoots and edits (at a basic level) video. I'd go even further: non professionals also shoot stills and shoot and edit videos—professors, journalists, dads, everyone. I suppose part of this is semantic, the definition of "professional." In broader tech culture, and the camera is no different, the accessibility and ease with which people bundle skills has eroded the boundaries of professions. A just-stills photographer in advertising, for example, at this point would be ... doomed!
10-06-2014, 09:35 AM   #492
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I'm not saying one person can't do both
...but I know that **I** can't do both!

Pentax has always been a bit behind on video specs. The k-5 is better at video than I am, though. Heck, you could probably say the same thing about the 645D, though.
10-06-2014, 09:48 AM   #493
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The k-5 is better at video than I am, though.
This is actually true of the K3 as well. If you work within its limitations, i.e. tripod, no SR, excellent lenses (manual just fine), you have a good b angle. Certainly it's good enough for most of the web stuff out there, which streams at an even lower bitrate.
10-06-2014, 10:04 AM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by easyreeder Quote
I was 100% with you until that last bit. Everyone I know who shoots stills professionally also shoots and edits (at a basic level) video. I'd go even further: non professionals also shoot stills and shoot and edit videos—professors, journalists, dads, everyone. I suppose part of this is semantic, the definition of "professional." In broader tech culture, and the camera is no different, the accessibility and ease with which people bundle skills has eroded the boundaries of professions. A just-stills photographer in advertising, for example, at this point would be ... doomed!
This entire discussion should be transplanted to the Fujitsu Forum.
10-06-2014, 10:46 AM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
This entire discussion should be transplanted to the Fujitsu Forum.
Sorry, it's here.
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