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10-16-2014, 02:40 PM   #601
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I like my K3 a lot, but as an example, i miss the tilting LCD screens on my older Sony Nex cameras. My guess is that the conservatism of the company
I personally love flippy screens, but the flippy screen may not be a good example of camera company conservatism, just design priorities at work.

The Sony Alpha 99 and then A7 series were the first full-frames with flippy screens, despite full-frames being on the market for years. Pentax innovated by putting a flippy screen on the 645Z, perhaps showing that flippy screens were a useful add-on to even high-end professional grade cameras. Then after the 645Z broke the ice, the Nikon D750 followed, and is still the only conventional full-frame DSLR to have a flippy screen from either Canon or Nikon.

Even a recent 'pro grade' shooter like the Canon 7DII was designed without one, despite many other Canon DSLR's having flippy screens. So it seems like camera makers choose flippy screens if they have design reasons to do so, rather than the lack of a flippy screen being emblematic of conservatism per se.

But I certainly hope any new Pentax FF has one.

10-16-2014, 02:43 PM   #602
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Not DSLRs in particular, but I've heard of some systems using curved sensors to enable unconventional lens design - for example, strong field curvature that matches up to the curvature of the sensor.

Another fun thing is that you can fairly easily straighten out fisheye lenses with modern correction software. The tradeoff there is that you're stretching some pixels and shrinking (or disappearing) others, so the areas with lots of corrected distortion also tend to lose resolution.

Both of those are neither here nor there, I don't see Pentax making a curved-sensor camera, and fisheye correction is all software.

Now, what would be cool is ripping off the Contax AX moving focal plane system. Imagine a DSLR that could be as adaptable as a mirrorless just by switching an adapter and moving the sensor to tweak the register distance... Rumors were that Sony was experimenting with it with APS-C sensors, but no one has done it with FF and so far as I know there's been nothing more on that prototype for a year or more now.
In a way, Sony has done that now with the E and FE mounts. One just adds an external adapter to provide the registration distance

With regard to software correction of distortion, i recently composed an image in photoshop by addition of some birds to an interesting tree. The tree wasn't long enough to provide the artistic effect i wanted. So i added 30% to the length of the picture by using Photoshop's free transform function. I was astonished at how well that worked on a complicated background of crossing branches and trees. The point being that software has apparently continued to improve in recent years. So a 12" long picture became 18" long,but with the same original 8" width.
10-17-2014, 05:01 AM - 1 Like   #603
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Flippy screens might be seen as making the camera less robust... it's usually consumer gear or in the case of the 645Z studio gear that gets a flippy screen, while things like the K-3 or 7D don't get it. Not sure as to how far that is just a thing of perception or if it really weakens the camera. I'd expect them to find a way to make it really robust, though maybe not as flippable as a result. What I really want is to look at the screen from top down, and perhaps from bottom up sometimes.


QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Not DSLRs in particular, but I've heard of some systems using curved sensors to enable unconventional lens design - for example, strong field curvature that matches up to the curvature of the sensor.

Another fun thing is that you can fairly easily straighten out fisheye lenses with modern correction software. The tradeoff there is that you're stretching some pixels and shrinking (or disappearing) others, so the areas with lots of corrected distortion also tend to lose resolution.

Both of those are neither here nor there, I don't see Pentax making a curved-sensor camera, and fisheye correction is all software.

Now, what would be cool is ripping off the Contax AX moving focal plane system. Imagine a DSLR that could be as adaptable as a mirrorless just by switching an adapter and moving the sensor to tweak the register distance... Rumors were that Sony was experimenting with it with APS-C sensors, but no one has done it with FF and so far as I know there's been nothing more on that prototype for a year or more now.
Ok, moving the sensor around sounds really nice. However a few issues. At some point, the sensor will hit the mirror. Camera manufacturers may not have too much interest in people being able to use lenses from other manufacturers... unless we're talking about some 3rd party camera manufacturer without an established lens lineup and without the interest of establishing one... i.e. say some Chinese camera manufacturer comes along and wants to do a DSLR, and they just want to do that, instead of lenses... for them it would make sense. For Pentax sadly no. And a fully mirrorless camera that can support a new mirrorless mount as well as DSLR lenses would have to have the depth of a DSLR... basically a K-01 that can support shorter flange distances. Unless you make the camera foldable... (I guess for traveling purposes that might be a neat idea, but I don't think it'd catch on. You'd have to fit all the electronics into a small space... and would it be stable enough when opened up?)


The problem with curved sensors is that they really are only optimal for one focal length/lens design. So smartphones may profit from it, perhaps point & shoots. But until you can bend the sensor at free will as often as you'd like to (think curved TVs that can be made straight when you push a button) that's not going to make sense for ILCs.


Btw., back to lenses that are meant to be fixed in post... Samsung now has APS-C sized BSI sensors... and I'm sure that tech will come to FF sized sensors too. That allows for higher resolutions without having to give up much low light performance. So how about a sensor that has a higher than necessary resolution, combined with a lens that needs to be distorted in post. Say you want 20 MP as an end result, that should be really sharp, but the sensor has 28 MP. Fixing distortions in post loses resolution at the corners, but at the end the image is scaled down to 20 MP (with the option to keep 28 MP images when needed, especially when using better glass). The 20 MP image will be sharp until the corners. It's like having a 20 MP camera with high quality, big, heavy and expensive glass. On FF maybe the sensor could have 50 MP, with the target being 28, 36 MP...


Nokia btw. used a (IIRC) 1" sensor with 41 MP in one of their phones, with the intended output resolution of around 8 MP. It would scale down the photos in order to improve low light performance, and if you needed to, you could zoom in, since there's plenty of resolution (but then with worse low light performance).


What I also want from a new Pentax is at least a gorilla glass screen, if possible sapphire. A camera screen is prone to scratches (at least all of mine are quite badly scratched), and glass would easily fix that. Unlike phones, I doubt cameras suffer much of a risk of breaking the glass though, especially since it is usually surrounded by the camera body, rather than fully exposed as on some phones. So the main disadvantage of using glass is gone.
10-17-2014, 07:11 AM   #604
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
at least a gorilla glass screen
The K-3 and K-5 II/s already have a new, stronger tempered glass rear LCD screen. Does the job just as well as gorilla glass, as far as I can tell. Stronger (and brighter in daylight) than the plastic LCD screen on the K-5.

10-17-2014, 10:34 AM   #605
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Btw., back to lenses that are meant to be fixed in post... Samsung now has APS-C sized BSI sensors... and I'm sure that tech will come to FF sized sensors too. That allows for higher resolutions without having to give up much low light performance. So how about a sensor that has a higher than necessary resolution, combined with a lens that needs to be distorted in post. Say you want 20 MP as an end result, that should be really sharp, but the sensor has 28 MP. Fixing distortions in post loses resolution at the corners, but at the end the image is scaled down to 20 MP (with the option to keep 28 MP images when needed, especially when using better glass). The 20 MP image will be sharp until the corners. It's like having a 20 MP camera with high quality, big, heavy and expensive glass. On FF maybe the sensor could have 50 MP, with the target being 28, 36 MP...

Nokia btw. used a (IIRC) 1" sensor with 41 MP in one of their phones, with the intended output resolution of around 8 MP. It would scale down the photos in order to improve low light performance, and if you needed to, you could zoom in, since there's plenty of resolution (but then with worse low light performance).
.
Thanks for the explanation. So at the end of the day - if you can't see the distortion after post processing, does it really exist :-)

Seriously, I've been selling pictures out of a gallery for 6 months now and have yet to see any customers pull out magnifying glasses to examine images at 100% - on anyone's pics. And they don't automatically look at the corners either. The big electronics companies are coming up with different approaches to photography than we are used to. Is that good or bad: I don't know its just the way it is and the market place will likely decide which technology succeeds.
10-18-2014, 11:05 PM   #606
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
In a way, Sony has done that now with the E and FE mounts. One just adds an external adapter to provide the registration distance
What I was going at was the opportunity to have a real optical viewfinder with any SLR lenses. But come to think of it - you'd need a moving focus screen in addition to a moving sensor system, so that's probably not plausible.

An EVF system like an A7 probably is the better design there.

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
What I also want from a new Pentax is at least a gorilla glass screen, if possible sapphire. A camera screen is prone to scratches (at least all of mine are quite badly scratched), and glass would easily fix that. Unlike phones, I doubt cameras suffer much of a risk of breaking the glass though, especially since it is usually surrounded by the camera body, rather than fully exposed as on some phones. So the main disadvantage of using glass is gone.
This is actually one of the things I miss most about my old Canon 40D. The Canon displays are the toughest I've ever seen. In comparison my Nikon lenses' rabbitears put a real nice mark in my NEX's display.
10-20-2014, 03:08 PM   #607
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Thread theme is?

WCBDAPFF. (short)

so again. another suggestion from my side to get back to the actual meaning of this thread.

really silent screwdrive-af motor in the new body(like the SDM in the newer lenses.)
10-20-2014, 09:54 PM   #608
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
Thread theme is?

WCBDAPFF. (short)

so again. another suggestion from my side to get back to the actual meaning of this thread.

really silent screwdrive-af motor in the new body(like the SDM in the newer lenses.)
Well, instead of an LCD monitor, that area becomes a docking station for a smart phone. want to upload pics, do that via the smart phone. want to remote control the camera? do that by undocking the smart phone. If you can't beat them - join them :-)

10-20-2014, 11:01 PM   #609
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Well, instead of an LCD monitor, that area becomes a docking station for a smart phone. want to upload pics, do that via the smart phone. want to remote control the camera? do that by undocking the smart phone. If you can't beat them - join them :-)
So like the Sony QX10 then? EXCUSE ME SIR THIS A THREAD FOR "WHAT COULD BE DIFFERENT" NOT JUST ADVERTISING OTHER BRANDS' FEATURES!

Seriously people, don't be "that guy". The only things that are truly unexplored at this point are blue-sky stuff, the kind of stuff that's really questionable for Ricoh's first leap into the FF market. If the thread is about "list features no other brand has" rather than "what would you like to see on a Pentax DSLR" there's really very little new ground to explore.

Pentax is a good 5 years behind the leading edge of the curve, and a good 2 years behind the mainstream, in terms of when they should have started their product design.
Pretty much any feature that's worth having is already on someone else's camera. The absurd stuff is too risky for a first attempt for a company like Ricoh.

Pentax is almost certainly going to release a bog-standard FF DSLR. Assuming they ever release one, given how frequently they've teased the community in the past.

/thread

Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 10-20-2014 at 11:12 PM.
10-20-2014, 11:33 PM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
The absurd stuff is too risky for a first attempt for a company like Ricoh.
Pentax is almost certainly going to release a bog-standard FF DSLR.
Agreed. A standard FF with performance that matches it's peers (6D/ D610/ D750 etc if ~24MP) is all they basically need to deliver, IMHO, and all I want to buy.
10-21-2014, 11:40 AM   #611
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i completely agree, but that does not answer the question stated. :> I like that idea with the smartphone, but i don't think it is any good for a WR body. and there is no norm neither for the form factor nor for the connectors of smartphones, so we can be sure that will not happen. I liked the idea with the moving sensor so any other brand lens could be mounted with focus on infinity(But i guess that also won't happen, because Pentax-RICOH will produce serious lenses and they for sure want to sell many of them.

---------- Post added 10-21-14 at 11:57 AM ----------

one thing, some other member already mentioned in some other thread was:

what they really should do is make the in body screwdrive-motor more silent. (like an SDM motor)
10-21-2014, 12:19 PM - 1 Like   #612
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Oh gosh, i thought you wanted to do some real brain-storming, not just re-gurgitate the same small incremental improvements, time after time. One of the rules of brainstorming is you don't criticize the ideas that come up till later. But you seen to be more into criticism than anything else.

I wasn't pushing any brand. Sure, i've heard of the QX series, but it hadn't occurred to me that the idea was similar. I was thinking more into the traditional DSLR form factor with no LCD attached - that would be the role of the smart phone, also providing phone service, etc. I think the QX series is ugly, but thats probably a bias on my part.

But go ahead -stick with the small steps and i'll unsubscribe.
10-21-2014, 12:50 PM   #613
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Oh gosh, i thought you wanted to do some real brain-storming, not just re-gurgitate the same small incremental improvements, time after time. One of the rules of brainstorming is you don't criticize the ideas that come up till later. But you seen to be more into criticism than anything else.
Hope you're not saying that at me btw - that was me trying for sarcasm, perhaps poorly. The crazy ideas are the interesting ones, the little marginal changes are boring and mostly people are already working at them.

It's always kind of disappointed me that Ricoh hasn't done more/better with the GXR system. A lego-camera with interchangeable modules would be fun. If the system was opened at certain strategic points - in terms of connectors and protocols - you could play some of these wild ideas out much more easily. "Here's a sensor with a kit lens" or "here's a sensor with an M-mount" just isn't very compelling overall product, and MILCs are just a flat out better option at this point.

In particular I'd still love to see an open-source-ish camera with an OpenGL-like shader language for reading out the sensor (to minimize intellectual property problems), within some kind of Magic Lantern-like framework. Community involvement really helps open products and the results can actually be pretty good. I'm sure people could come up with some other interesting applications for sensor shifting...

I'd also love to see an APS-C MILC with a built in FF speed booster. That would probably scratch the FF itch for a lot of people, in terms of getting the lens' native field of view and shallower depth of field. Or a FF MILC with a P645 Speed Booster as an "upgrade path" product to their pro 645 line...

Last edited by Paul MaudDib; 10-21-2014 at 01:20 PM.
10-21-2014, 12:58 PM   #614
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Hope you're not saying that at me btw - that was me trying for sarcasm, perhaps poorly. The crazy ideas are the interesting ones, the little marginal changes are boring and mostly people are already working at them.

It's always kind of disappointed me that Ricoh hasn't done more/better with the GR system. A lego-camera with interchangeable modules would be fun. If the system was opened at certain strategic points - in terms of connectors and protocols - you could play some of these wild ideas out much more easily. "Here's a sensor with a kit lens" or "here's a sensor with an M-mount" just isn't very compelling overall product, and MILCs are just a flat out better option at this point.

In particular I'd still love to see an open-source-ish camera with an OpenGL-like shader language for reading out the sensor (to minimize intellectual property problems), within some kind of Magic Lantern-like framework. Community involvement really helps open products and the results can actually be pretty good. I'm sure people could come up with some other interesting applications for sensor shifting...

I'd also love to see an APS-C MILC with a built in FF speed booster. That would probably scratch the FF itch for a lot of people, in terms of getting the lens' native field of view and shallower depth of field. Or a FF MILC with a P645 Speed Booster as an "upgrade path" product to their pro 645 line...

Hmm, i was envious of the built-in-TC like the Canon.
10-21-2014, 02:46 PM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul MaudDib Quote
Hope you're not saying that at me btw - that was me trying for sarcasm, perhaps poorly. The crazy ideas are the interesting ones, the little marginal changes are boring and mostly people are already working at them.

It's always kind of disappointed me that Ricoh hasn't done more/better with the GXR system. A lego-camera with interchangeable modules would be fun. If the system was opened at certain strategic points - in terms of connectors and protocols - you could play some of these wild ideas out much more easily. "Here's a sensor with a kit lens" or "here's a sensor with an M-mount" just isn't very compelling overall product, and MILCs are just a flat out better option at this point.

In particular I'd still love to see an open-source-ish camera with an OpenGL-like shader language for reading out the sensor (to minimize intellectual property problems), within some kind of Magic Lantern-like framework. Community involvement really helps open products and the results can actually be pretty good. I'm sure people could come up with some other interesting applications for sensor shifting...

I'd also love to see an APS-C MILC with a built in FF speed booster. That would probably scratch the FF itch for a lot of people, in terms of getting the lens' native field of view and shallower depth of field. Or a FF MILC with a P645 Speed Booster as an "upgrade path" product to their pro 645 line...
I don't think you need something like OpenGL to protect their IP. Just a simple API that has commands that for example can demand the raw data from the sensor, or that tells the sensor to move by a certain amount.

And I would really like to see Magic Lantern get officially involved, including full access to the firmware and datasheets etc.
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