[Kunzite]

By the way, I'd like to see exactly where kenspo made the claim about that sensor being "really SPECIAL" and so on.
Otherwise, it doesn't exist.

[Clavius]

By the way, I'd like to see exactly where kenspo made the claim about that sensor being "really SPECIAL" and so on.
Otherwise, it doesn't exist.

If you refer to Mark II, i dont know why they changed things there. But with the FF, its another story. They need to be ahead here. They can't afford to deliver with the same sensors as cameras that are on the marked today. Then Pentax will be parked again in few months. There is a good reason for the FF not coming before end of the year.

5/char

[mecrox]

Originally posted by kenspo
If you refer to Mark II, i dont know why they changed things there. But with the FF, its another story. They need to be ahead here. They can't afford to deliver with the same sensors as cameras that are on the marked today. Then Pentax will be parked again in few months. There is a good reason for the FF not coming before end of the year.
5/char

Maybe Kenspo is alluding to a Samsung sensor, say the one in the NX-1 scaled up? If a Pentax FF has a Sony sensor, then Ricoh will be using the same sensor as everyone else. Even if it is a new Sony iteration or using something more than the usual Bayer config, others will get their hands on it or versions of it fairly quickly. And if Ricoh could get their hands on the NX-1's Samsung digital processor too, then they might have an awesome combo to offer.

[Kunzite]

I'm sorry, Clavius - I'm still ignoring you. As an one-off exception, I clicked "View post" and I will respond just to say the obvious: there's nothing about the sensor being "really SPECIAL" in that quote. And I'm not talking about the presence of certain keywords, but semantics: not using "the same sensors as cameras that are on the marked today" and using a "really SPECIAL" sensor" are two very different things. Sufficiently so that the latter can only be considered a strawman made to attack kenspo.
And now I'm getting back to ignoring you; please don't bother to quote me in the future. Thanks.

---------- Post added 02-06-15 at 05:09 PM ----------

Maybe Kenspo is alluding to a Samsung sensor, say the one in the NX-1 scaled up?

Nope, he isn't. People (other than kenspo) are alluding to many different things...

[Clavius]

Maybe Kenspo is alluding to a Samsung sensor, say the one in the NX-1 scaled up? If a Pentax FF has a Sony sensor, then Ricoh will be using the same sensor as everyone else. Even if it is a new Sony iteration or using something more than the usual Bayer config, others will get their hands on it or versions of it fairly quickly. And if Ricoh could get their hands on the NX-1's Samsung digital processor too, then they might have an awesome combo to offer.

I figured it out. It's going to be a CCD based sensor for those extra clean super-low ISO shots. LOL!

---------- Post added 02-06-15 at 14:30 ----------

I'm sorry, Clavius - I'm still ignoring you. As an one-off exception, I clicked "View post" and I will respond just to say the obvious: there's nothing about the sensor being "really SPECIAL" in that quote. And I'm not talking about the presence of certain keywords, but semantics: not using "the same sensors as cameras that are on the marked today" and using a "really SPECIAL" sensor" are two very different things. Sufficiently so that the latter can only be considered a strawman made to attack kenspo.
And now I'm getting back to ignoring you; please don't bother to quote me in the future. Thanks.

Please ignore me better in future. Because I do NOT miss your chronic lying as you are displaying here again. I am not attacking Kenspo, but merely trying to figure out what he means. He indicated a sensor below 46 mp but "ahead" of everything else that's already out there. That means it has something special to it, as Patarok concluded.

[patarok]

By the way, I'd like to see exactly where kenspo made the claim about that sensor being "really SPECIAL" and so on.
Otherwise, it doesn't exist.

Something special about the "FULL Frame Sensor DSLR" POINT.
that is what i wrote... your fantasy is doing wild things with you. OK one more time s l o w l y . . .

I will not show you my facebook chat protocols AND

again:

"" there is something really SPECIAL about that upcoming Full-Frame-Sensor DSLR... "" maybe i missed i minus here... *lol* so here: Full-Frame-Sensor-DSLR... better?

and again:
S o m e t h i n g s p e c i a l a b o u t t h e u p c o m i n g c a m e r a t h a t h a s a f u l l f r a m e s e n s o r b u i l t in ! ! !


And no. I wont spend more time on reconnaissance of any wild fantasy and bellicose profiling attempts that grow out of misinterpreted sentences.

... But there is one positive thing about this misunderstanding. It gives me approval that many people must have sleepless nights thinking about the upcoming FF-DSLR from Pentax.

(Also some people who stated that they wouldnt need one.)

[DantaxD-SK]

There is some debate as to the sensor.
There are claims it will be an a7r sensor, and a7 II sensor.
Either would result in a large improvements in live AF and video.
But that would be new to Pentax, not new in general.

On the other hand there is talk of it receiving the worlds largest EXMOR RS stacked high fill ratio sensor.

Or it could have something to do with the vertical mirror AF patent.
Something very like this would have been patented in 2005 if I could afford a patent attorney.

[Kunzite]

patarok, sensor or DSLR, you couldn't provide a quote and your post is unintelligible.

[mee]

Does Ricoh have the means to develop their own sensor?

[JohnBee]

I fear alot of companies get caught-up under the allure that they need to re-invent the wheel so as to have a shot at the spotlight in terms of market shares.

That said I can't help but feel as though Pentax may end-up placing themselves in what I'd call another "K-1 scenario", of which they generated a buzz but missed the mark in terms of market appeal. And so from that perspective, I'm lead to believe that there are no short cuts in competitive market placements beyond smart product designs and good strategies.

My take on Pentax' success comes down to delivering high performance products at a price point that will give the label the respect it needs to succeed. Translated: A 50MP FF mirrorless camera.

But that's just me

Pentax/Ricoh interviews over the past 12 months, when discussing the prospect of FF, have consistently alluded to it being something 'different' to the rest of the market.

A more recent interview suggested it would be a 'straight-ball' (or traditional DSLR, as opposed to mirrorless), but still maintained the 'different' line.

In my idle musings over what would constitute 'different', I've struggled to come up with many ideas that no other manufacturer has done or is doing. Could it be the compactness of the system that Pentax seems to be peddling on a monotonous basis nowadays (ie a smaller FF than any others...a hard arguement to push against the mirrorless systems)? The shake-reduction system (that I believe Sony has already done)? Retro styling (already done...)? Sensor size (hard to image something truly 'different' given current technology)?

Or have they come up with some truly revolutionary, secret technology that's not yet perfected? Highly unlikely methinks.

I'm curious what others think could be so 'different' about a FF DSLR that it gets such regular and confident mention from Ricoh execs?

Less a discussion about "I wish it was..." than a discussion about "what it realistically might be...that would also make it different"...

[Kunzite]

John, since 2012 we were told that it will be a DSLR; and at CP+ this was once again confirmed.
And by the way, making a MILC doesn't guarantee success.

[clackers]

Does Ricoh have the means to develop their own sensor?

Doesn't own a chip fabrication plant AFAIK, hasn't designed one before, etc.

It could be argued Canon should exit the sensor business.

[Clavius]

Does Ricoh have the means to develop their own sensor?

Don't know about developing themselves. I do know that their printer/copier/scanner business also required a source of sensors long before they aquired Pentax. (Albeit sensors of a different kind.) Who knows what sources - other then Sony - they may have?

Now I know what's going to be 'different'!!! They're going to use a tiny high MP sensor with a mirror and 'scan' the image rapidly the same time the shutter opens and closes! Like in a copier! Fastest shutter time will still be limited to only 1000/s, but boy will that FF camera be cheap without an FF format sensor!

Sorry about that last paragraph. I simply can't be serious all the time. Although I have seen some interesting DIY medium and large format projects that actually do this.

[clackers]

I do know that their printer/copier/scanner business also required a source of sensors long before they aquired Pentax.

I've always assumed they sourced any sensors in their equipment from Toshiba, Sony, Samsung, Kodak or whoever through the years, Clavius. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who knows different.

[rawr]

Doesn't own a chip fabrication plant AFAIK, hasn't designed one before, etc.

Ricoh have designed and built many chips for many years, including for example the chip that drove the old NES game console, and more recently stuff like the 86K RGB metering sensor in the K-3/654Z, the AF sensor chips in all recent Ricoh cameras etc.

They partner with fabs like UMC to do the production of high-volume chips, but can also do things themselves - eg:
Manufacturing Service - Electronic Devices

Also:
Electronic Devices

But of course to do a full-frame digital sensor to rival one from Canon or Sony is a whole different ball game. I don't think they are up to that level of chip, nor would it be sensible to take on a project like that either, IMHO.