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05-14-2014, 12:25 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by K10DK7 Quote
The Sony a99 comes to mind: "Image Stabilization : SteadyShot INSIDE™ in-body image stabilization. Compensation effect: Equivalent to approx. 2.5 to 4.5 steps in shutter speeds *Varies according to shooting conditions and lens used. Type: For still images: Image Sensor-Shift mechanism"

Olympus has made a big point of their in body stabilisation (on m4/3s sensor?), and much of their description and brief reads as a Pentax system.
They talk about 6 axis and I wonder if that's better than Pentax, but yeah, it reads the same.

05-14-2014, 04:45 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
They talk about 6 axis
I thought five, Richandfleur, but what's an axis between friends?
05-14-2014, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
They talk about 6 axis and I wonder if that's better than Pentax, but yeah, it reads the same.
Yes, it's 5 axis and it is better than Pentax (though not necessarily by a huge amount). In some of the interviews, Pentax has hinted on the possibility of exploring miniaturization of SR, which could potentially be used in future GR type cameras and a K-3 size FF. Match that K-5 with some DFA limited zooms, and you'll have a nice compact FF DSLR system for landscape work -- far better, in terms of size and weight, then what Nikon and Canon offer.
05-14-2014, 12:08 PM   #79
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What about a foveon sensor or their own modified version of it?

05-14-2014, 01:46 PM - 1 Like   #80
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I think we can forget Foveon or CCD or even square sensors (though it would be interesting). Here are things I would like to see that would also be special:
- Large OVF, possibly hybrid.
- In body SR, mechanical even for video
- Sensor shift bracketing - use the SR to shift the sensor between consecutive photos. This should allow for ultra high resolution composites
-WR tilt screen
05-15-2014, 03:03 AM   #81
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Hybrid viewfinder is definitely interesting, - others are doing a lot with this though typically all on EVF rather than on an optical base.


Seriously though, given all flagship units are likely to have wifi and GPS as standard, why not include this with a sensor shift mechanism to provide for in camera astrotracing. Be it APS-C or FF, no one else is doing native astrotracing without the need for some rudely priced GPS clip on module.
05-15-2014, 08:50 AM   #82
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I've been thinking about this. A Pentax FF could have a lot of unique things going for it:

- Hybrid viewfinder
- Shake Reduction
- Select between APS-C and FF modes (Nikon has this too, but I think Canon doesn't)
- Sensor-based AA (like K-3)
- Smaller size (that will depend on the SR system, of course)
- HOCIR on the viewfinder (that'll be the most unique feature)(*)

Now bring back the FA 20/2.8, FA/28 2.8, FA 35/2, FA 135/2.8, FA 20-35/4, FA 24-90/4, FA 28-105/3.2-4.5, FA*80-200/2.8. Maybe even the FA*250-600/5.6 for bragging rights.
Then all they have to do is release two new lens: the obligatory 24-70/2.8 (as the FA*28-70/2.8 won't cut it), and a "superzoom" (maybe a rebranded Tamron 28-300). With time, bring a fisheye into the lineup as well.

Put HD coatings on everything.

And we've got a very competitive full frame setup!

(*)For those confused, that's an ongoing joke...
05-15-2014, 10:25 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Now bring back the FA 20/2.8, FA/28 2.8, FA 35/2, FA 135/2.8, FA 20-35/4, FA 24-90/4, FA 28-105/3.2-4.5, FA*80-200/2.8. Maybe even the FA*250-600/5.6 for bragging rights.
Then all they have to do is release two new lens: the obligatory 24-70/2.8 (as the FA*28-70/2.8 won't cut it), and a "superzoom" (maybe a rebranded Tamron 28-300). With time, bring a fisheye into the lineup as well.
In a perfect world, sure. The problem isn't lens designs - they have the lens designs and can relatively easily tweak them to new glass formulae and HD coatings. The problem isn't K-mount.

The real problem is, I think, that Hoya shuttered Japan production facilities and retired the Japanese assmblers. They'll have to expand Filipino or Vietnamese or Thai (I think new) or Chinese (Ricoh factory) production, acquire tooling, train assemblers, arrange supply chains - and price to amortize all that capital. There just isn't any fully-amortized manufacturing capital left. Hoya disposed of or took it all. To make that work out financially probabaly requires more volume than they can foresee right now.

After the K3 and 645z splashes, after the 94 new USA B&M distributions becomes 194 or 294, after Dealer volume begins to let them creep out the wholesale pricing breakpoint scale - then there will be incentive to make - and incentive to sell - a FF camera.

It appears Ricoh plans to grow Pentax mostly organically, reinvesting internal cash flow over time. Thus their time horizon is longer and new product menu is smaller than we would like.

If our demand horizon and their supply horizon match up - that will be different.

05-15-2014, 11:07 AM   #84
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I know they shut down all japanese manufacturing operations, but that didn't seem to keep the 645 lenses from staying on the catalog... or maybe they just had heaps of them?

Plus - I didn't think they'd want to bring the Full Frame lenses back all at once. I'd assume they'd want to design a new barrell (D FA) - but having the optical formulas that are tried, proven and truly excellent, reduces most of the R&D involved.

They could start by bringing back the 24-90/4 and 80-200/2.8, and adding a 24-70/2.8 - that, I think, would be sufficient for a Full Frame launch!

(well, if I had it my way, they'd bring back the A 70-210 f4 optical design, but alas, that didn't seem to be viable in the AF era)...

Because we already have Full Frame lenses in the 31, 43, 50 (I think the 50 1.4 hasn't been discontinued?), 77 and 100 FL, plus the 35, 50, 55, 200 and 300 all cover the FF circle! Then they could keep adding others back - I'd start with the 20/2.8 and then just add the 50 1.2 - such a splendid optical design needs to be brought back.
05-15-2014, 01:33 PM   #85
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I don't doubt anything you've written. What we don't know is which lenses are actually in production and which are not. A poster here who seems well informed says the FA Lim's have not been produced for two years; FA35/2 and FA50/1.4 for longer.

The bulk of the 645 lenses were not available outside Japan until a few weeks ago. Who really knows what the planned production of the 645z is - 20,000 units over three years? 30,000? How many are pre-ordered for Police, Military and other government contracts? And what does that mean for the lenses? Some of them they could make to order. Others they could make as inventory is drawn and maintain a buffer stock. Aside from the new designs, though, do we know which ones are actually currently produced?

All of that is materially different from the investment required to manufacture 300,000 FF camera bodies a year (perhaps in several iterations) and the related lenses to support that (probably over a number of years) - it is an entirely different commitment. People are the most expensive part of everything. Capital is next. Unless you're talking about pharmaceuticals, R&D and product testing are down the list.

I'm not suggesting they can't do it - I'm not suggesting they won't do it - but I am suggesting it is a free-standing business decision. We can't use K3 metrics and we can't use 645 metrics to justify K-ff. They might be better off just releasing the lenses as DA* lenses or as a faster DA Pro line to be used with K3 and successors - and holding off on the camera for a while.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-15-2014 at 01:43 PM.
05-15-2014, 01:36 PM   #86
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Well, medium format is a much smaller market. And the initial production volume for the 645Z is 400 units per month.

Are those old designs really "truly excellent"? While the competition is updating their lenses to cope with the ever increasing resolution (and the accompanying pixel peeping), would it be a good move? Sure, I understand the impatience and the idea that cutting corners might speed up things a little; but lenses are products with a long life, launch a sub-par lens now and it won't be replaced soon. Do it to support the K-mount flagship and it will backfire, badly.

I'm also not convinced that having the optical design while everything else is changed represents most of the R&D involved; and of course, R&D is only a part of the cost associated with launching a new lens.
05-15-2014, 01:57 PM   #87
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I know medium format is a much smaller market, but it's 16 lenses we are talking about! Still, it could all be new old stock.

Also, I don't think for a second that they're gonna sell 300K FF cameras a year. I don't even think 50K is the goal initially - if it was, Ricoh would be doing this already (I have no idea about the numbers though! I can't find sales figures online). Plus a lot of people will buy the FF camera and use with their existing primes, and some with older zooms. New zooms are going to be far more in demand than primes, I think, just because so many existing primes already cover the FF circle.

Plus, they can control the number of batches of cameras that they sell. If the camera is constantly in back order, that just increases the appeal of the brand, and allows them to keep selling at full price.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Are those old designs really "truly excellent"? .
Those that I mentioned - I think they are. I think it's the coatings that need an update.
Also, that's the reason I only proposed to bring back 3 zooms - 20-35, 24-90 and 80-200. I think the others wouldn't cut it in this day and age...

The disclaimer here is that I haven't used a lot of these lenses, and I haven't used the competitor's either. So don't take my evaluation too seriously - I'm sure Ricoh isn't going to do anything based on what I think But from what little I know, I do think those lenses I mentioned are competitive today. They're all certainly in my wish list
05-15-2014, 02:31 PM - 1 Like   #88
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Unless they are absolute idiots there is something going on we don't understand or they would have released a FF camera body and the associated lenses long ago.
05-15-2014, 03:42 PM   #89
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A 24-70/70-200 f2.8 (or the 24-80/80-200 variant) will be great to have for FF out the gate. or maybe even a 16-80 f2.4 (or at least f4) would be cool too.
05-15-2014, 04:03 PM   #90
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When Pentax launch full frame, it is going to be a mirrorless one. That is my prediction.
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