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04-13-2014, 07:20 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The D4s image is sharper and has more Dynamic Range... at 25,600 ISO you can believe the images, or believe the frauds.
The D4s image sure looks better. And the "actual" measured ISO is nearly identical on the 2 cameras, according to DxO - so that's a fair comparison. But the photos look like they had to use a different lens, or at least a different FL on a zoom.

EDIT: I was wrong - they're still using the Sigma 70mm macro on both these cameras, as they've done for a while.


Last edited by DSims; 04-13-2014 at 07:59 PM.
04-13-2014, 07:56 PM   #47
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Jpg's......

Imaging resource.....

BwahahahahHahahahHHahahaha
04-13-2014, 08:00 PM   #48
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Journalists, sports photographers, BwahahahahHahahahHHahahaha
04-13-2014, 08:13 PM   #49
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How many times do I have to say that frame rate improves with 12 mp? Is this the third time? Fourth time?

It's the same story with file size. ...

04-14-2014, 04:24 AM   #50
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IN other words as usual ElJay, you got nothing. Ridicule is so often the debating tool used by people who have nothing to offer.
04-14-2014, 05:59 AM   #51
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" I have plenty ", Norm. I've done my own analysis. I'm not calling anyone's toddler fat. I have my own analysis, and I it agrees with DxOMark. There are obvious potential errors (comparing jpg engines, comparing pictures at unequal magnification, comparing raw but then disallowing noise reduction) that people can make, and I've pointed them out.

There are advantages to smaller resolutions. Those advantages are frame rate and storage size.
04-14-2014, 06:53 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
IN other words as usual ElJay, you got nothing. Ridicule is so often the debating tool used by people who have nothing to offer.
I'm not sure why you are so doubting of the DXO Mark site? I am not a big fan of their lens testing, but I do think they do a better job of evaluating sensors than any one out there. DP Review and Imaging Resource tend to demonstrate efficacy of jpeg engines -- handy if you shot jpegs (I don't), but not worth so much otherwise.

Edit: You have made the point in other threads, Norm, that the amount of high iso (greater than 6400) you do is minimal, so I would think you would be in the camp where you would want significantly better performance in the below iso 6400 range, than slightly better performance above that.

Last edited by Rondec; 04-14-2014 at 07:11 AM.
04-14-2014, 06:59 AM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
A niche of a niche has worked quite well for GoPro, Red, BlackMagic, etc...
Some might begin to think that Pentaxians are actually the Knights Who Say Niche!



04-14-2014, 07:11 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I'm not sure why you are so doubting of the DXO Mark site? I am not a big fan of their lens testing, but I do think they do a better job of evaluating sensors than any one out there. DP Review and Imaging Resource tend to demonstrate efficacy of jpeg engines -- handy if you shot jpegs (I don't), but not worth so much otherwise.
DxO has 'always' been the best tester-of-sensors.

I used to hate-hate-hate DxOMarks' lens testing. Recently I realized that their testing is fine and objective, it's just that

1) trying to summarize all of the objective tests into one number is a bit too much
1.1) and that doesn't even try to get into the subject of test validity- what is a valid test or metric for a wide-angle, small aperture lens and a normal prime and a 100mm macro are quite different
2) there appears to be no weighting for size/weight/price
3) there's still quite a bit of subjectivity required in lens tests
4) even in their objective measurements, it would be better if they spec'd some/more numbers rather than just all color-contour plots.

I suspect their actual testing is top notch, but their analysis of the tests is sub-par.
04-14-2014, 07:14 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
DxO has 'always' been the best tester-of-sensors.

I used to hate-hate-hate DxOMarks' lens testing. Recently I realized that their testing is fine and objective, it's just that

1) trying to summarize all of the objective tests into one number is a bit too much
1.1) and that doesn't even try to get into the subject of test validity- what is a valid test or metric for a wide-angle, small aperture lens and a normal prime and a 100mm macro are quite different
2) there appears to be no weighting for size/weight/price
3) there's still quite a bit of subjectivity required in lens tests
4) even in their objective measurements, it would be better if they spec'd some/more numbers rather than just all color-contour plots.

I suspect their actual testing is top notch, but their analysis of the tests is sub-par.
You may be right. However their lens data is probably based on one or two copies of a lens, which can give skewed results -- the Sigma 35mm f1.4 sure looks a lot better on the D7100 than the K3, but that is probably copy variation -- otherwise can't really explain the results.
04-14-2014, 08:36 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
What if Pentax chose to go the opposite direction with the K-1 (or what ever they will call it)? Instead of going 24 or 36 MPs they chose to use the new 12MP sensor from Sony.
Ricoh should come out with all three (12,24 and 36mp.).
04-15-2014, 01:56 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Ricoh should come out with all three (12,24 and 36mp.).
That would be really nice. Of course the safe bet is 24 or 36. The 36MP with select-able AA filter is probably the safest choice. I think Ricoh plays it safe, but they keep talking about being different. The 12MP would be different and if it does offer 2-stops better than the D800 then it will have a market.

I used my 12MP 5D for years and I have no problem going back to 12MP if it gives my better high ISO and DR. I shoot mainly events and music so I see the need.
04-15-2014, 02:31 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
but they keep talking about being different.
645z is Capital-D Different!
04-15-2014, 02:56 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
If it happens, it won't be their only FF model, and it won't be first.
But it could be their last because at the price no now will ever purchase one

If it were a data back to go into a film body at a good price I can see a 12MP sensor sure, but a FF DSLR with the resolution of the *istD. No thanks unless it can do something like ISO25 with absolutely no noise at all
04-15-2014, 04:54 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
But it could be their last because at the price no now will ever purchase one

If it were a data back to go into a film body at a good price I can see a 12MP sensor sure, but a FF DSLR with the resolution of the *istD. No thanks unless it can do something like ISO25 with absolutely no noise at all
Don't you think it would have zero noise at ISO 25 (at least insofar as is possible with digital)?
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