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04-18-2014, 05:08 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
Unless you are a professional photographer I think it's safe to say you never truly "need" a camera
I don't think that's a safe assumption. I can think of many, many situations where you "need" a camera. Ever been in an auto accident? Ever needed to record your property for insurance? Just two examples...

04-18-2014, 05:19 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
I don't think that's a safe assumption. I can think of many, many situations where you "need" a camera. Ever been in an auto accident? Ever needed to record your property for insurance? Just two examples...
camera phone
04-18-2014, 05:28 PM   #18
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I want FF, mostly to take photos of my children.

Landscapes - does not make a diff.

Low light - all cameras are good enough circa K5 with usable ISO3200 and a fast lens. It can get better, but for practical viewing, its already a non-issue to me.

DR - Already very good on aps-c. Anything else, I'd need to bracket for DRI anyway on whatever format.

Viewfinder - what viewfinder? No issues with the aps-c one on K5/K30, also happy with the one from the 5D, A good focusing screen and perhaps a 1.2x eyepiece was more important to my hit rate for MF than a larger viewfinder. Now, I'm using a EVF, so I think I'm one of those types that this viewfinder issue is a non-issue.

Better Quality - Maybe... 24mp FF got less pixel density, its more forgiving and I like it this way. IQ wise, not big deal over 16mp aps-c. Of course 36mp FF will be different, bnut with its own set of issues.

DOF control - Sometimes I need more for the same FOV or want the same DOF for a bigger aperture (eg. in strobing), so no one sensor solves all here. However, for some type of shots, the isolation for the same FOV and working distance is better. I'd get FF just for the last reason for my children's shots.
50mm becomes a much more versatile focal length. Able to do great isolation via DOF control, wider looking for the same working distance or close in for a portrait.
85mm-135mm becomes easier to work with. Not too far a working distance and of course a shallower DOF for the same FOV.
04-18-2014, 05:30 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
camera phone
Well, that still counts as a camera!

04-18-2014, 06:34 PM   #20
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If it inspires you to go out and shoot then buy it. That's the only explanation you will ever need. It won't change the photos you shoot but a new camera be it full frame or no frame hopefully will push you to shoot some more.
04-19-2014, 12:32 AM   #21
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Do I need a 35mm Full Frame camera?

The choice of format really depends on the taste, needs, wants, and style of the photographer...
For me, I've been shooting APS-C since the day I've got my first digital SLR. I've been producing/creating photographs with it with different lenses and and different lighting from ambient to artificial. I've been shooting for national newspaper and for big corporations, photography is not just my hobby and passion but also my profession - it's my main source of income.
With that being said, I need to step up my gear, now wanting and needing a full frame camera. Yes, I can Just buy one from Canon/Nikon/Sony, but I just wanted one system to do the job. Yes, I can switch to other brands for it, but I fell in love with Pentax and that's something I really value, hard to explain in words, but that's just it...
First, I needed a FF because of its superior low-light capabilities. On paper, these new APS-C sensors are really great, but in real world, those FF sensors (even the older ones) has still better result.
Second, for my style and taste in photography, I love shallow depth-of-field. The FF sensor can give the depth that I'm looking for, can produce a "3D" look.
Third, I shoot and produce images for gigantic large format prints for big corporations. With FF, it's easier to do it. The 645D/z is great for that, but that's too much from what I'm asking for.

My demand for FF Pentax will not improve my skills in photography, but will improve the quality of my photographs and will help me achieve the looks that I'm looking for.
04-19-2014, 01:09 AM   #22
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Having recently moved from K100DS to K5II let me be the first to say that I absolutely need FF as soon as possible.
Hopefully it will bring the prices of wide angle APS-C goodness down as people transition, and I'll have a great excuse to let my LBA rage.
04-19-2014, 04:04 AM   #23
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I will set my stall out, Yes I need a full frame.


Sure I agree APS-C can do the same as full frame. If your talking about modern lenses and simply want sharp images, I would see little reason to go full frame.


I own an APS-C and im happy with the results generally, but im less than happy with the results artistically.


I shoot with carefully chosen old glass 50 to 60 year old glass, ancient lens designs from 100 to 200 years old. The reason I choose these lenses is the look and feel of the image with soft focus, soft edges, vignetting, soft painterly bokeh, and dreamy rendering.


These lenses were designed for full frame and only render their full characteristics on full frame, with APSC-C I lose out on many of the very qualities these lenses afford me. Quite different renderings at frame edge compared to centre.


Can I get a modern equivalent of these kind of old lenses on APS-C no I cant theyr unobtainable, so im stuck with cropped images until I get a full frame.


I will be going to full frame without a shadow of a doubt, my image making requires it and will continue to suffer until I do.


Will it be a Pentax? Of course not. Do I blame Pentax for not creating a full frame? no of course I do not.

04-19-2014, 05:22 AM   #24
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I need a full frame to use my 20 full frame lenses in their native FOV without a 1.5x crop. Also a full frame will not show distortion like a 1.5x crop APS-C DSLR with ultra wide lenses. And if you shoot in low light a full frame sensor is much better since I could use a slow 28-70mm F3.5-5.6 full frame kit zoom lens indoors at higher iso than a 1.5x crop DSLR without any visible noise.
04-19-2014, 10:17 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I don't *need* FF. I can get good pictures from APS-C, limited mostly by my own ability..

The 2nd reason is that I do see a little bit of distortion when using the 35mm as a normal lens. Especially my middle son, the one who was in the train - he has a bit of a round large nose and it looks a bit bigger on pictures than in real life. Not the case when I use a 50mm or my 70-210 at 70mm for portraits. It still looks a bit big, but I can tell it looks more like him.
Joke...
I went to my doctor and said "It hurts when I do this."
He said "Don't do that."

My favourite portrait lens on APs-c is 70mm... As a rule, I won't use 35 mm as a portrait lens on any camera, that's just a matter of knowing your lenses. As a rule I don't like 50mm on FF either. For the nose thing you describe, you simply need to be further away from your subject. Format choice is not the issue, unless you choose to make it so.
04-19-2014, 11:02 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
p. Also a full frame will not show distortion like a 1.5x crop APS-C DSLR with ultra wide lenses
That's not true. FF lenses distort just like APS-C lenses. Really the only way to get rid of distortion with ultra-wides is to reduce flange-focal distance, so less corrective elements are necessary. That's wy high-end rangefinder and view camera lenses are superior for ultra-wide angle-- simpler lens designs. An 18mm lens on a FF DSLR needs pretty hefty corretion, where an 18mm Lens on a Leica is a much simpler and superior design. Same thing with approx. 75mm View camera lenses, or the 38mm fixed lens Hasselblad. Also, the lenses with fewer correctional optics are smaller, and lighter, too.

If you're referring to mounting LTM or M ultrawides on something like an A7, that's probably the best digital solution for Ultrawide use on the market right now.
04-19-2014, 11:11 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
That's not true. FF lenses distort just like APS-C lenses. Really the only way to get rid of distortion with ultra-wides is to reduce flange-focal distance, so less corrective elements are necessary. That's wy high-end rangefinder and view camera lenses are superior for ultra-wide angle-- simpler lens designs. An 18mm lens on a FF DSLR needs pretty hefty corretion, where an 18mm Lens on a Leica is a much simpler and superior design. Same thing with approx. 75mm View camera lenses, or the 38mm fixed lens Hasselblad. Also, the lenses with fewer correctional optics are smaller, and lighter, too.

If you're referring to mounting LTM or M ultrawides on something like an A7, that's probably the best digital solution for Ultrawide use on the market right now.

QuoteQuote:
I have a feeling an image like this would come out better shot with a 12 mm FF lens.. because of the distortion...
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/169-pentax-full-frame/257907-just-simple-...ml#post2781911
04-19-2014, 11:46 AM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
I don't think that's a safe assumption. I can think of many, many situations where you "need" a camera. Ever been in an auto accident? Ever needed to record your property for insurance? Just two examples...
One more, especially since you're an Oregoner. What if you encounter Sasquatch?

---------- Post added 04-19-14 at 12:55 PM ----------

I'm OK with APSC most of the time, but my next camera will be FF. I want access to wider FOV with my K and M lenses. Don't forget that every FF has an APSC selectable sensor built right in, and that's another feature I plan to use.
04-19-2014, 02:12 PM   #29
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I don't need FF, but if I can get FF at a reasonable price I would get a more advanced tool in my toolbox. FF would give me more options when I create images. But I would not have any problem in continue using APS-C in the future. So FF vs APS-C is not that big deal for me.

I might even go for smaller than APS-C format in the future if sensor performance continue to improve. To have more lightweight equipment is also tempting.
04-19-2014, 02:25 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by fretlessdavis Quote
That's not true. FF lenses distort just like APS-C lenses. Really the only way to get rid of distortion with ultra-wides is to reduce flange-focal distance, so less corrective elements are necessary. That's wy high-end rangefinder and view camera lenses are superior for ultra-wide angle-- simpler lens designs. An 18mm lens on a FF DSLR needs pretty hefty corretion, where an 18mm Lens on a Leica is a much simpler and superior design. Same thing with approx. 75mm View camera lenses, or the 38mm fixed lens Hasselblad. Also, the lenses with fewer correctional optics are smaller, and lighter, too.

If you're referring to mounting LTM or M ultrawides on something like an A7, that's probably the best digital solution for Ultrawide use on the market right now.
This is true. Distortion is very much lens dependent. If you compare a full frame lens like the Nikon 16-35 to the Pentax DA 12-24, you actually find that the Pentax has less distortion (2% versus 4%). Even the ultrawide Sigma 8-16 is quite well corrected on APS-C and shows only about 3 percent distortion.

To me, the biggest reason to get full frame is to print bigger. I don't print big enough to "use up" the megapixels in my K3, so I don't really need one at all, but I think if most of us are honest, we just want a full frame camera. And that's probably enough (as long as your immediate family is OK with the expenditure).
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