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07-02-2014, 06:31 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
So what have they been working on since the K-3 was released? With a K-1 maintaining most of the K-3 tech, there really should not be a lot of new tech to design. A new shutter and OVF. New AF sensor array for the bigger VF.
You're right but I get the feeling that Ricoh at present feel they need some kind of headline-grabbing USP for the FF camera. The K-3 had moire reduction, the 645Z has the best performance/ergonomics/feature balance of any MF camera whilst also being the cheapest ..... I suspect a 'competent' entry into the FF market may not be enough for Ricoh. So maybe they have some surprises in the bag that just need a bit more tweaking ....

07-02-2014, 06:33 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I here its going to be the flash pops up and goes off 50 times, they are upping the irritation level. They've put condensers in there so it will go off at least two more times after you remove the battery. You heard it here first. They're sick of people like me saying it's not all that serious. They want to get people's attention.
Good move on their part - it's horrible when no one pays any attention to you!


It'll be the perfect way for Pentax to get noticed at weddings and parties!
07-03-2014, 04:32 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Good move on their part - it's horrible when no one pays any attention to you!


It'll be the perfect way for Pentax to get noticed at weddings and parties!
I wonder how many people will start disco dancing when it happens? it'll be like the old days. Parties haven't been the same since they stopped using strobes.

I can see the invitations now... "Will you come to my party on Friday night? And bring your Pentax."

Last edited by normhead; 07-03-2014 at 05:01 AM.
07-09-2014, 12:40 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
With the 645Z release now out of the way, it does indeed beg the question: what will all those Ricoh engineers start working on next?
Bug fixes and firmware upgrades for the 645z, of course...

---------- Post added 07-10-14 at 05:45 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The engineers should have been done a long time ago. The 645Z shares almost all of its technology with the K-3 or the 645D. The 645z team should have been pretty small and should have been finished months ago. Production and marketing are the ones who are just now getting done with the 645z.

So what have they been working on since the K-3 was released? With a K-1 maintaining most of the K-3 tech, there really should not be a lot of new tech to design. A new shutter and OVF. New AF sensor array for the bigger VF.
I get the impression that the 645z was 'rushed' in to service, in response to other manufacturers announcing their own new MF offerings, and that it tied up a lot of resources to do so. Remember, at CP+ earlier this year, that they only displayed the 645z in a glass case? That would suggest that, even a few months before hitting the shelves, they were no-where near finished with it's development...

The niggling thought in my mind is, if the 645z release was originally planned for later (read after FF), what impact has that unplanned development effort had on timescales for FF? I hope I'm wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the 645z could have scuppered the possibility of a FF release this year.

I think we should not underestimate the amount of time it takes to develop a product to perfection, tempting though it may be

---------- Post added 07-10-14 at 05:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jonby Quote
To get back to the original point of the thread …

Despite any marketing which might suggest the contrary, the pricing of the 645Z clearly leaves the door open for Pentax to release a FF at some point. The 645 is currently around seven times the price and almost double the weight of Pentax's next-in-line camera, and cannot use the same lenses. I'd say that door is wide open! Just about anyone in the market for the 645Z will already own either a FF or an existing MF. Those people aren't going to be buying a Pentax FF. The potential market for a Pentax FF is therefore unaffected by the 645 release - ie. those who have significant investment in K-mount lenses who want higher image quality/narrower DOF/better viewfinder/classic lens FOV who can't afford the money or time involved in changing systems entirely.

So I disagree with the suggestion in the opening post that the release of the 645Z in any way precludes the development and release of FF. If the 645Z sells well (and I think it will), then if anything, its release makes a FF more likely.
I'm inclined to agree, there is an obvious 'hole' in the Pentax lineup that a FF (or two) would fit nicely into. Pentax / Ricoh have been quite firm in their statements that FF will form part of their product line, the only question remaining is when it will appear...


Last edited by Poit; 07-09-2014 at 12:55 PM.
07-09-2014, 01:43 PM   #185
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Camera mfr. with large staffs are going to drown in red ink in the present environment.
07-09-2014, 02:55 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
That would suggest that, even a few months before hitting the shelves, they were no-where near finished with it's development...
That's not uncommon with software. Builds will be made regularly right up until hardware manufacturing begins, and the software on demonstration hardware may lag by some time.
07-12-2014, 04:13 PM   #187
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Well, I hope I'm wrong, that they always planned a 645z release mid-2014, and that they still had lots of engineers beavering away on the ongoing development of FF in readiness for Photokina 2014....
07-12-2014, 04:35 PM   #188
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Pentax full frame sales hook.

All new products need a motivational reason for new and existing customers to buy the new product. What new innovations or features will Pentax use in their marketing campaign? Who will be the target market segment? Shake reduction and flip out LCD would be nice features. Compact size and super bright finder would be good. Maybe a retro-style design like the Nikon DF would sell to all of the older folks with lots of money for Toys? What do you think? Play nice now.

07-12-2014, 04:49 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Well, I hope I'm wrong, that they always planned a 645z release mid-2014, and that they still had lots of engineers beavering away on the ongoing development of FF in readiness for Photokina 2014....
I think the 645z slipped timing a bit. But who knows.

They announced the 645Z in April. Two ILC cameras in a year is pretty sub par I think for Pentax (or Canon and Nikon), and Ricoh has said they intend to be a full-lineup competitor.

Pentax, 2014: 645Z....?
Pentax, 2013: K-3, Q7, K-50, K-500
Pentax, 2012: K-5II/s, Q10, K-30, K-01


Canon, 2014: 1200D, M2, ...?
Canon, 2013: M2, 70D, 100D, 700D
Canon, 2012: 6D, M, 650D, 1Dc, 5DIII

Nikon, 2014: D810, S2, J4, V3, D4s, D3300, ...?
Nikon, 2013: Df, D5300, D610, 1 AW1, D7100, 1J3, 1S1
Nikon, 2012: D5200, 1 V2, D600, 1J2, D3200, D800/E, D4


Seems pretty reasonable to expect another camera from Pentax this year. Heck they should be ramping up compared to 2012/2013 when they were likely recovering from the takeover.
07-12-2014, 07:28 PM   #190
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Sound logic ElJamoquio.

I guess I'm trying to convince myself not be too hopeful.
07-12-2014, 07:54 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Seems pretty reasonable to expect another camera from Pentax this year.
Yes, but unfortunately it may only be the K-50 or Q-7 replacement!
07-13-2014, 05:09 PM   #192
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Obviously they will have a FF mirrorless announcement at Photokina called the K1M
for mirrorless.

K mount, 24mp, quiet shutter, which has become a Pentax tradition.

It will be WR and attract Sony customers, disappointed by lack of FE native lenses.

Lacking an OVF, it will have EVF in the upper left corner of the back side. About the same size of the K3 but shorter on the height. Customers will remark on its lighter weight.

It will be price competitive with the D610 and the Sony A7.

Anything else would be boring in a down market like this. It will sell in droves.
07-13-2014, 06:45 PM   #193
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Down market?
07-13-2014, 07:27 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Obviously they will have a FF mirrorless announcement at Photokina called the K1M
for mirrorless.

K mount, 24mp, quiet shutter, which has become a Pentax tradition.

It will be WR and attract Sony customers, disappointed by lack of FE native lenses.

Lacking an OVF, it will have EVF in the upper left corner of the back side. About the same size of the K3 but shorter on the height. Customers will remark on its lighter weight.

It will be price competitive with the D610 and the Sony A7.

Anything else would be boring in a down market like this. It will sell in droves.
Is this from someone who is looking to buy a FF mirrorless called the K1M for mirrorless, being of K mount, 24mp, quiet shutter, which has become a Pentax tradition. While also being WR and attract Sony customers, disappointed by lack of FE native lenses. But in lacking an OVF, you would like it to have EVF in the upper left corner of the back side. About the same size of the K3 but shorter on the height. To which you will remark on its lighter weight and that it's price is competitive with the D610 and the Sony A7??

Because I'm not desiring of such a camera.

I would like to see a FF dSLR K mount body with a big honkin grip, huge, bright OVF, and quiet shutter of the Pentax tradition... of course also being WR and priced competitively with the D610. Because I want it, I think it will sell like hotcakes at an IHOP.



---------- Post added 07-13-14 at 09:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think the 645z slipped timing a bit. But who knows.

They announced the 645Z in April. Two ILC cameras in a year is pretty sub par I think for Pentax (or Canon and Nikon), and Ricoh has said they intend to be a full-lineup competitor.

Pentax, 2014: 645Z....?
Pentax, 2013: K-3, Q7, K-50, K-500
Pentax, 2012: K-5II/s, Q10, K-30, K-01


Canon, 2014: 1200D, M2, ...?
Canon, 2013: M2, 70D, 100D, 700D
Canon, 2012: 6D, M, 650D, 1Dc, 5DIII

Nikon, 2014: D810, S2, J4, V3, D4s, D3300, ...?
Nikon, 2013: Df, D5300, D610, 1 AW1, D7100, 1J3, 1S1
Nikon, 2012: D5200, 1 V2, D600, 1J2, D3200, D800/E, D4


Seems pretty reasonable to expect another camera from Pentax this year. Heck they should be ramping up compared to 2012/2013 when they were likely recovering from the takeover.

They went from Q10 to Q7.. soo does that mean next is a Q4? I know the Japanese have traditionally avoided the number 4 so do we get a Q5 or Q3 instead?

In any case, it seems like we can expect a new Q, and a mid tier K mount body if anything.. judging from past 2 years experience.

I'm not sure they want to throw their Mid tier to the lions though by announcing it alongside anything larger.. like a K3ii or even a K-FF, so if this is true, I wonder if that would mean they'd advance the release notice of 'smaller' products before Photokina. Again, provided they are releasing anything larger on the tier list above the mid tier body at Photokina.
07-13-2014, 07:38 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Down market?

Down market meaning that DSLR shipments are down 19.5 percent for the first 5 mo. of 2014 from 2013. Implying that camera stock is not moving off the shelves. Also, in some thread, there was a note about the cheap prices of entry level dslrs at places like BHphoto and video. 645z got a lot of recognition when it came out, K3 not so much even though it seems to be selling well, and i very much like mine.
Another conventional dslr by Pentax is not going to get much recognition, but to me, an up-spec'd mirrorless FF camera, designed to compete somewhat with DSLRs would attract attention - my theory only.

---------- Post added 07-13-14 at 07:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Is this from someone who is looking to buy a FF mirrorless called the K1M for mirrorless, being of K mount, 24mp, quiet shutter, which has become a Pentax tradition. While also being WR and attract Sony customers, disappointed by lack of FE native lenses. But in lacking an OVF, you would like it to have EVF in the upper left corner of the back side. About the same size of the K3 but shorter on the height. To which you will remark on its lighter weight and that it's price is competitive with the D610 and the Sony A7??

Because I'm not desiring of such a camera.

I would like to see a FF dSLR K mount body with a big honkin grip, huge, bright OVF, and quiet shutter of the Pentax tradition... of course also being WR and priced competitively with the D610. Because I want it, I think it will sell like hotcakes at an IHOP.


---------- Post added 07-13-14 at 09:32 PM ----------



They went from Q10 to Q7.. soo does that mean next is a Q4? I know the Japanese have traditionally avoided the number 4 so do we get a Q5 or Q3 instead?

In any case, it seems like we can expect a new Q, and a mid tier K mount body if anything.. judging from past 2 years experience.

I'm not sure they want to throw their Mid tier to the lions though by announcing it alongside anything larger.. like a K3ii or even a K-FF, so if this is true, I wonder if that would mean they'd advance the release notice of 'smaller' products before Photokina. Again, provided they are releasing anything larger on the tier list above the mid tier body at Photokina.
Yes, i would buy such a mirrorless FF camera - i thought that was obvious.

Nope, i would not buy a big honkin gripped FF Pentax camera. Already a lot of those on the market shelves from Nikon and Canon. Despite the availability of big honkin gripped FF DSLR shipments are down 20% for the first 5 months of 2014. I don't understand why Pentax would want to add more FF dslrs to a soft market sector - boring marketing approach in my mind - but perhaps you would buy it.

For whatever reason, mirrorless camera sales are on the upswing. That would be where i would want new Pentax models.

Last edited by philbaum; 07-13-2014 at 08:01 PM.
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