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07-16-2014, 06:22 AM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Exactly, thats why i proposed the mirrorless FF K-mount. Pentax would join Sony in disrupting the present cosy two person horse race that Canon and Nikon presently have. And Pentax could make that mirrorless a more professional experience than Sony, but yet be able to beat Canon and Nikon on price because of the mirrorless construction.

I've watched Pentax over the years come out with some excellent cameras like the K10, K20, K5 and K3, yet it doesn't seem to have done anything for their market share.

Be Interesting Pentax! Come out with a quality mirrorless FF and shakeup the marketplace big time. One that holds out light and water

Einstein: Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.


I'm all for your proposed mirrorless Pentax digital FF body.. just so long as it has a large grip, a mirror, and an OVF inside.

Pentax are a traditional company.. they seem to follow traditional patterns.. Canon and Nikon are still doing big body FF with OVF, so I would expect, if they do release a digi FF body soon, it would look the same as those.

Sony is the innovator.. they are in a different world.

An aside -- Einstein is often misquoted as saying that.. earliest known reference to that quote, however, is in the basic text to the 'Narcotics Anonymous' book.

07-16-2014, 07:22 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lol, then perhaps OCD is doing the same thing over and over again, for fear there might be a different result. I guess that "more of the same" in terms of standard DSLRs is that eventually there will be a different result: they just won't sell very well anymore unless supported by countless millions of marketing spend. Still, I realize that suggesting Ricoh is in thrall to collective obsessive compulsive disorder because they haven't released an FF mirrorless camera is possibly a bit strong Still, I'd be more interested in this than in a standard DSLR. Since I'd have to start again with new lenses anyway, or mostly, the mount would make little odds.
No offense meant, but a careful reading of my original post does not show any reference to OCD. Those with OCD deserve our compassion and understanding. MRI research has shown that OCD is due to an incorrect sequence of brain processing, perhaps due to disease, and is treatable. And the term "insanity" which i did quote, is a rather useless term. Mee is correct that Einstein did say he probably never said that quote, and i regret bringing it up.

Thanks for the nod towards mirrorless cams. I think it offers a way forward for Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I'm all for your proposed mirrorless Pentax digital FF body.. just so long as it has a large grip, a mirror, and an OVF inside.

Pentax are a traditional company.. they seem to follow traditional patterns.. Canon and Nikon are still doing big body FF with OVF, so I would expect, if they do release a digi FF body soon, it would look the same as those.

Sony is the innovator.. they are in a different world.

An aside -- Einstein is often misquoted as saying that.. earliest known reference to that quote, however, is in the basic text to the 'Narcotics Anonymous' book.
Pentax was also an innovator at one time, and i believe they need to get back to their roots to survive. Ricoh is a market leader in business copiers and a business doesn't get there without innovation - hopefully they will reignite that attitude in Pentax. Pentax using vibration of the sensor to simulate an AA filter is quite an innovation.
07-16-2014, 08:49 AM - 1 Like   #243
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Pentax was and is innovator in technical solutions more than in design. I even dare to say that such a new but unergonomic design like A7 couldn't ever been created by Pentax, who has in the last years the some of the best design from all DSLR market, in this regard.
07-16-2014, 09:01 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Pentax was and is innovator in technical solutions more than in design. I even dare to say that such a new but unergonomic design like A7 couldn't ever been created by Pentax, who has in the last years the some of the best design from all DSLR market, in this regard.
Very nice that you are also a fan off the K-01.

07-16-2014, 09:07 AM   #245
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I think the A7 is quite ergonomic, amazingly good despite it's small size.
07-16-2014, 09:12 AM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Very nice that you are also a fan off the K-01.
I don't know if will ever be a K-01, but if this will be made, I just hope that will be design by Pentax designers, not by Mark Newson, or whatever...

And 645z show the same traditional orientation in this field, so I'm optimist.
07-16-2014, 10:52 AM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Obviously they will have a FF mirrorless announcement at Photokina called the K1M
for mirrorless.

K mount, 24mp, quiet shutter, which has become a Pentax tradition.

It will be WR and attract Sony customers, disappointed by lack of FE native lenses.

Lacking an OVF, it will have EVF in the upper left corner of the back side. About the same size of the K3 but shorter on the height. Customers will remark on its lighter weight.

It will be price competitive with the D610 and the Sony A7.

Anything else would be boring in a down market like this. It will sell in droves.
I have the A7, as I got tired of waiting for Pentax to offer a FF model. The K1M idea is good and I would only have a couple changes to be made. It would have a nice grip, but the body would be slim. It would come with a adapter with a screw drive motor and electrical contacts. The adapter would mount all Pentax K-mount lenses. Other third party adapters would mount just about any lens made. It would have focus peek and magnify in the EVF. Being a some what bigger camera then the A7, it would have a much bigger battery and maybe in body SR with software anti alesing filter. function like the K3. If the E mount was added to the body it would be an even bigger seller, bre cause of the existing accessories available.
07-16-2014, 01:01 PM - 1 Like   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
No offense meant, but a careful reading of my original post does not show any reference to OCD. Those with OCD deserve our compassion and understanding. MRI research has shown that OCD is due to an incorrect sequence of brain processing, perhaps due to disease, and is treatable. And the term "insanity" which i did quote, is a rather useless term. Mee is correct that Einstein did say he probably never said that quote, and i regret bringing it up.

Thanks for the nod towards mirrorless cams. I think it offers a way forward for Pentax.



Pentax was also an innovator at one time, and i believe they need to get back to their roots to survive. Ricoh is a market leader in business copiers and a business doesn't get there without innovation - hopefully they will reignite that attitude in Pentax. Pentax using vibration of the sensor to simulate an AA filter is quite an innovation.
Best to get over it I've had OCD for nearly all my adult life anyway and frankly I don't give much of a d about it anymore. In the meantime, has anyone seen this article? It makes me wonder whether the issue here is that the K-mount is really two mounts now, on the basis that the market may be bifurcating a bit. The majority of FF may likely stay as traditional mirror and, for now, OVF because it is controlled by Canon and Nikon who have a huge advantage in their installed base of lenses (i.e. mounts); APS-C or smaller sensors could be moving towards mirrorless. This poses one for Ricoh: if they make a serious go into mirrorless, which is the better long-term bet for their business: APS-C and/or smaller, or FF?

07-16-2014, 01:48 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I think the A7 is quite ergonomic, amazingly good despite it's small size.
I agree, I much prefer it to my K-7 . The main problem for people on the PENTAX full frame forum with the 12,24 and 36mp A7's is that it does not say PENTAX.
07-16-2014, 01:53 PM   #250
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"I don't care what you smell, get down there!"

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
.... This poses one for Ricoh: if they make a serious go into mirrorless, which is the better long-term bet for their business: APS-C and/or smaller, or FF?
Mirrorless path breaks down even further: aps-c MILC K-mount, or aps-c MILC 'new-mount' that takes advantage of a shorter flange-register distance to allow thinner bodies?

It looks like if they really want to go MILC long term, they might ditch K-mount - or keep K-mount on life-support by offering an AF adapter for their new MILC-apsc mount, and then shift all new sub-645 lens development to this new mount.

This is why anyone who wants Pentax K-mount to survive/thrive should hope for a FF initiative - even if you don't personally plan to buy FF.

The Squeeze is happening. You are in the garbage disposal on the Death Star right now and you're getting a Bad Feeling About This.



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Last edited by jsherman999; 07-16-2014 at 02:00 PM.
07-16-2014, 02:05 PM   #251
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Just because someone on the internet wrote an article saying DSLRs are dead and mirrorless are taking over, it doesn't mean it's the truth. The numbers aren't there yet for that. And the hillarious thing is that at the end of the article it says Canon's much better positioned for the future than Nikon because it released the EOS-M... (article is from mid-2013, we all know what happened next).

I don't care how much a mirrorless is supposed to be "technologically more advanced" or "newer technology" - I'm not going to substitute my DSLR with one - I'll always have a DSLR as my main camera. Just like I don't want a digital amp for my guitar. I'll take my old technology tube amp any day (and mine happens to be a tube amp with lots of newer technology like MIDI control, a serial port for footswitch control, etc...)
07-16-2014, 02:25 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I'll always have a DSLR as my main camera.
The problem is that if you want that future DSLR to wear new K-mount lenses, you may have to hope for a FF body from Ricoh.
07-16-2014, 02:36 PM   #253
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I'm sure the FF is coming.

But if Pentax cameras (or Ricoh K-mount cameras) aren't made anymore, I guess I'll just have to switch brands.

If something substitutes DSLRs I don't think it will be MILCs, so I think for my lifetime I won't see the day when a DSLR isn't made anymore.
07-16-2014, 02:54 PM   #254
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Heck there are still large format film cameras (or small format film cameras) made, and for good reason.

Still, very much a niche-of-a-niche.

I think DSLR's are very nice, but EVF's have made tremendous strides in only a few years.
07-16-2014, 03:00 PM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Heck there are still large format film cameras (or small format film cameras) made, and for good reason.

Still, very much a niche-of-a-niche.

I think DSLR's are very nice, but EVF's have made tremendous strides in only a few years.
I think I might like and EVF with a sensor twice the size of a 645, and a 4x5 inch screen, for live view, and about 100 Mp, but I sure wouldn't want to pay for it at today's prices.
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