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07-17-2014, 08:10 AM - 2 Likes   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Interesting article. It actually makes me wonder if the advance of mirrorless technology is the reason for Pentax's hesitation in releasing a FF.
Not likely. Currently, there really isn't any hesitation. It's just taking longer than originally presumed. The development of the 645z system has delayed development of the FF system.

QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Why invest loads in development of lenses etc etc if the technological way of the future is mirrorless?
The technology will have to be adapted to the lenses, not vice versa. That's why in the referenced article, the author predicts that Canon and Nikon will simply adapt their SLR mounts to mirrorless. There's no reason why Pentax can't do likewise. Pentax has already gone down that road with the K-01; so the know-how is already in place.

Replacing the K-mount with a new FF mount designed for a compact FF mirrrorless would be a huge mistake for Ricoh. Not only would such a move alienate the vast majority of current K-Mount glass users, but a compact FF mirrorless camera would be too small for many of the types of lenses that photographers want to shoot with it. The 70-200 f2.8 zoom on the roadmap would be an ergonomic disaster on an A7-like camera. If you have to make a larger camera to balance the larger FF glass, it might as well be a K-mount camera.

07-17-2014, 08:16 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That's very good to hear, but a little surprising if it is fully OK wide-open, and from 55mm onwards:
DA lens on Full Frame: Test Shots thread
specifically:
vjacesslav: SMC PENTAX DA 55-300MM F4-5.8 vs FULL FRAME
These tests were don on film. As we see with the Sony 7r, high MP sensors really push the limits of these lenses.

I wish I had bookmarked the review, but someone did a comparison of the DA* 55mm vs the Sony 55mm F/1.8 (A7r) and there was significant distortion on the DA* 55mm on the outer 50% of the image.
07-17-2014, 09:43 AM   #273
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I can't believe you guys are taking this blogger's article seriously. I mean, just look how he put his Canon hopes on the EOS-M system, which was a flop worse than the K-01, and the whole thing is cancelled outside of Asia.

Mirrorless is making inroads, but slowly, and I see it more like electric or hybrid cars, which increase in sales a little bit year after year, but are far away from dominating the market.

In other words, it would be great if Pentax had a mirrorless system in the future, but having a FF DSLR is far more urgent, and I'm very confident that we'll see it soon.
07-17-2014, 12:00 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I can't believe you guys are taking this blogger's article seriously. I mean, just look how he put his Canon hopes on the EOS-M system, which was a flop worse than the K-01, and the whole thing is cancelled outside of Asia.

Mirrorless is making inroads, but slowly, and I see it more like electric or hybrid cars, which increase in sales a little bit year after year, but are far away from dominating the market.

In other words, it would be great if Pentax had a mirrorless system in the future, but having a FF DSLR is far more urgent, and I'm very confident that we'll see it soon.
Canon M system has not been so bad as you make out, I think. It was the second best-selling mirrorless camera of 2013 in Japan and and in June 2014 - last month - was the best-selling one of all in Japan according to BCN. Even at close-out pricing, Canon will have sold shedloads of them. Compare with the ongoing fiasco of the Nikon 1 series which is not as popular as Nikon must have hoped despite their sinking gazillions into the venture. I think this all mainly reflects the split East-West between preferences in mirrorless vs DSLR. Clearly there is room for both but the article strikes me as making some good points about the likely turns of the road ahead. And if Canon come back with a turbo-charged MILC, then the road will turn slightly more in the direction that article suggests.


Last edited by mecrox; 07-17-2014 at 11:05 PM.
07-17-2014, 12:11 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Canon M system has not been a flop at all so far as I can see. It was the second best-selling mirrorless camera of 2013 in Japan and and in June was the best-selling one of all in Japan according to BCN. Canon have likely sold shedloads of these in Asia and have a platform which won't have cost them much to start and which can be fairly easily extended, unlike Nikon who must have spent a fortune on the 1 system and are saddled with something which isn't so popular and which, so I have read, is pretty expensive to manufacture. Chances are the Canon M wins there too. I wouldn't want one and it's hardly the world's best camera, but it seems a fairly shrewd move when seen across markets worldwide. All this reflects is the split East-West between preferences in mirrorless vs DSLR. Clearly there is room for both but the article strikes me as making some good points about the likely turns of the road ahead.
The Canon M did not sell well until the fire sale in July 2013 when B&H was selling it with the 22mm F2 and 90 EX Speedlight flash kit for $299 instead of $799 for the M w/22mm & $149 for the 90 EX Speedlight flash.
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07-17-2014, 12:54 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's a nice example of bias.
Not bias from me, I would personally prefer a FF DSLR. I just thought the article made some valid points I hadn't previously considered.

The article did come across as one-sided, but made some valid points nonetheless.

---------- Post added 07-18-14 at 05:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
The technology will have to be adapted to the lenses, not vice versa. That's why in the referenced article, the author predicts that Canon and Nikon will simply adapt their SLR mounts to mirrorless. There's no reason why Pentax can't do likewise. Pentax has already gone down that road with the K-01; so the know-how is already in place.

Replacing the K-mount with a new FF mount designed for a compact FF mirrrorless would be a huge mistake for Ricoh. Not only would such a move alienate the vast majority of current K-Mount glass users, but a compact FF mirrorless camera would be too small for many of the types of lenses that photographers want to shoot with it. The 70-200 f2.8 zoom on the roadmap would be an ergonomic disaster on an A7-like camera. If you have to make a larger camera to balance the larger FF glass, it might as well be a K-mount camera.
Valid points too.

OK, so we're back to Pentax not having a FF because they're just bloody slow
07-17-2014, 01:00 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
What Pentax FF ?
Why, the one the company says it's working on, Jogiba ... *that* one.

Let's add to the problem that the non-stabilized Pentax lenses are mated to a non-stabilized body with the A7.

Last edited by clackers; 07-17-2014 at 01:07 PM.
07-17-2014, 01:06 PM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Why, the one the company says it's working on, Jogiba ... *that* one.
Do you have a Ricoh/Pentax link to that info ?

07-17-2014, 01:21 PM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
Not bias from me, I would personally prefer a FF DSLR. I just thought the article made some valid points I hadn't previously considered.

The article did come across as one-sided, but made some valid points nonetheless.
Not from you, but in the article. Apologies if I implied otherwise.
Sure, it's making some valid points - but the choice of points, the assumptions made - that's bias. The article was started to "prove" the mirrorless will soon rule the world, the rest was just put there to fit that scenario.
07-17-2014, 01:21 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
For a Pentaxian, perhaps the most amusing feature of the article
is item 2 in "Nikon's Mirrorless Future" on "DX", i.e., APS-C:

"Keep the F mount, but get rid of the mirror"

In other words, the author is suggesting that Nikon should make a K-01!

[And my apologies for talking about APS-C in a Full Frame thread. ]
It may be a hit if it's not more expensive than a DSLR and doesn't look like it should have Duplo on the front.
07-17-2014, 01:21 PM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Do you have a Ricoh/Pentax link to that info ?
Yes, here's the Chief Sales and Marketing executive, Jogiba:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/246044-interview-ch...ing-japan.html

It's fascinating that you know the ins and outs and latest developments of non-Pentax products, but not the subject of this very forum .... hmmm.

If it was something Panasonic or Sony were bringing out, you'd be all over it like seagulls on potato chips.
07-17-2014, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #282
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personally, I'd love to see Ricoh keep up their investments in "modular" digital cameras. A square format, modular, digital, mirrorless, mini-Hasselblad-like camera would be just the ticket with removable sensor packs (B&W, Color, Infrared, High-ISO, etc.). The lens mount would be a new mount, with an adapter extension that would AF with K-mount of course. The image area would be 24x24mm (or perhaps slightly less). An optional tilt/shift adapter between the new mount and the K-mount would be icing on the cake.

Michael
07-17-2014, 02:12 PM   #283
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Yes, here's the Chief Sales and Marketing executive, Jogiba:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/246044-interview-ch...ing-japan.html

It's fascinating that you know the ins and outs and latest developments of non-Pentax products, but not the subject of this very forum .... hmmm.

If it was something Panasonic or Sony were bringing out, you'd be all over it like seagulls on potato chips.
The K-7 is the last DSLR I purchase since I shoot more video than stills so the chance of a FF mirrorless with EVF from Pentax with better video features than Panasonic or Sony is very slim IMHO.
07-17-2014, 02:24 PM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
The K-7 is the last DSLR I purchase since I shoot more video than stills so the chance of a FF mirrorless with EVF from Pentax with better video features than Panasonic or Sony is very slim IMHO.
Yes, but I'm talking about your lack of knowledge because of your video bias.

In a Pentax forum you can still pay attention to Pentax news as reported by other members before posting.

That interview was posted previously.
07-17-2014, 05:31 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I can't believe you guys are taking this blogger's article seriously. I mean, just look how he put his Canon hopes on the EOS-M system, which was a flop worse than the K-01, and the whole thing is cancelled outside of Asia.

Mirrorless is making inroads, but slowly, and I see it more like electric or hybrid cars, which increase in sales a little bit year after year, but are far away from dominating the market.

In other words, it would be great if Pentax had a mirrorless system in the future, but having a FF DSLR is far more urgent, and I'm very confident that we'll see it soon.
Nothing has happened in the 9 months since that article was published to indicate the article is inaccurate in any way. Just the opposite. DSLRs have trended down by about 20% in units and Mirrorless have trended up by about 13% in units. Things are a little fuzzier when comparing revenue, admittedly. In Japan, mirrorless in units are 60% of DSLR units in sales.

Canon positioned the Eos-M camera so that it wouldn't sell successfully against its DSLRs, and surprise - it didn't :-) But a better equipped M-mount might have done very well in my thinking. In any case, thats a small part of the article. What the author said about noise and mirror shock to the image are all true, and nobody argues those points. Not to mention the cost and pita factors on calibrating phase focusing hardware.

I don't recall anyone on this forum predicting the current collapse of the PS compact sales, but yet it happened anyway. So i'm not surprised when lots of folks dispute the anticipated changes in the DSLR status quo. Its funny how changes are easier to predict when looking back on historical events, but not so easy looking forward
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