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07-24-2014, 10:57 AM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
That, and the guy that now shoots Nikon full frame but still hangs out here all day every day because... his wife apparently still shoots Pentax. Apparently he thinks his Nikkor 24-85 lens trumps his (or her) Pentax Limited glass. If he truly thinks that, more power to him, but I got past the point of just laughing it off and am just annoyed now.
I think you're getting me and someone else confused.

FYI I still have Pentax gear - maybe 12 lenses and two bodies? and use it when out shooting. I don't know which of us combo-strawmen you're being unfriendly to.

---------- Post added 07-24-14 at 10:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
he thinks his Nikkor 24-85 lens trumps his (or her) Pentax Limited glass. If he truly thinks that
Dunno why you're angry about that. I didn't expect to like the lens. I bought it because it was free, same cost as body-only; and I only bought it to have perma-attached to a Nikon telephoto that was a much better deal than a Pentax telephoto.

The lens performed well, well, beyond expectations. I still love my limited glass but it just doesn't perform as well in a lot of scenarios.

07-24-2014, 11:10 AM   #377
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Dunno why you're angry about that.
I'm not angry...

But the fact is, you built your whole "Nikon FF is cheaper than Pentax APS-C" argument on that lens being better than your limiteds and * lenses... and you bring it up all the time.

I can't say your 24-85 is a bad lens at all, I've never owned it (nor have I owned a FF camera, or a Nikon FF for that matter... I do have experience with D3000 and D7100, but not with FF digital at all... so, like I said, it might be a fantastic lens, or you might have a fantastic copy. All I've seen is flickr photos taken with it... and they look like boring kit lens pictures to me. Even the landscape ones. It doesn't look better to me than a Cosina 19-35mm... in fact I've seen some stunning pics from the Cosina. With the 24-85, the colors seem uninspiring... but that could be due to the photographers, not the lens. Still, it is not the point you bring that is annoying - after all, you are entitled to your opinion and in your hands the 28-85 might work better -, but the fact that you divert every thread you join into the same argument, and the fact that you impose this opinion of yours as fact.

I'd love to see these fantastic colors and rendering you say you get from it... but I haven't seen a link to your pictures yet.
07-24-2014, 11:13 AM   #378
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I'm not angry...
Sorry, annoyed, not angry. But you sound angry, if it matters.


QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
But the fact is, you built your whole "Nikon FF is cheaper than Pentax APS-C" argument on that lens being better than your limiteds and * lenses... and you bring it up all the time.
I don't interject it into random conversations. When someone says FF is more expensive, I say that, for me, FF (not just Nikon) is cheaper than APS-C (not just Pentax).


QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
the fact that you impose this opinion of yours as fact.
Your opinion that I impose my opinion as fact is not a fact!



Not that I need your permission to be here, but I am still more of a Pentaxian, and a fan of Pentax. I am not a Nikon guy, to me it's just a tool.

I'd like to be a single-brand-person. But I can't right now. The most annoying thing about being a Pentaxian? Every month or so I have to justify whether or not I deserve to talk about the cameras I love, after someone insinuates I shouldn't even be here.
07-24-2014, 11:17 AM   #379
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If I understand right, this is PentaxForum. So, if anybody is interested in Pentax cameras or lenses, is welcome, I think. It's normal to make one or two comparison between a Pentax gear and other. But if this is happening almost everyday, on the same subject, those people place is somewhere else. Not here, because this is propaganda, not honest comparison.

07-24-2014, 11:23 AM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
If I understand right, this is PentaxForum. So, if anybody is interested in Pentax cameras or lenses, is welcome, I think. It's normal to make one or two comparison between Pentax gears and other. But if this is happening almost everyday, on the same subject, those people place is somewhere else. Not here, because this is propaganda, not honest comparison.
The subjects of discussion in this "Pentax Full Frame" subforum may expand to your satisfaction once Pentax actually has a FF camera to discuss. Until then, all related subjects that may lead to comparisons (or wishes!) are probably OK, in this forum.

.
07-24-2014, 11:27 AM   #381
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Not that I need your permission to be here, but I am still more of a Pentaxian, and a fan of Pentax. I am not a Nikon guy, to me it's just a tool.

I'd like to be a single-brand-person. But I can't right now. The most annoying thing about being a Pentaxian? Every month or so I have to justify whether or not I deserve to talk about the cameras I love, after someone insinuates I shouldn't even be here.
No one's talking about being or not being permitted. You have the right to sound like a broken record, I have the right to state it's annoying - and it's the mods' right to tell us all to shut up and get back to topic Look, it might not be your intention at all, in fact you sound like you might be a very nice guy to meet and talk to in person. One of the problems with the internet is that we type away and never see how people react to what we say. The lack of feedback doesn't allow us to be as self-critical as we are when we talk to people in real life. And I say that as someone who's been on the wrong side of things more than once, so no offense is intended at all
07-24-2014, 11:59 AM - 1 Like   #382
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
The answer to this question is difficult. I wonder some time why a very small numbers of people are so persistent in propagating that Sony A7 on this forum? What's their purpose? One of them even recognize that his newest Pentax is a K20, but he has a A7, so, we can say he is not interested in Pentax cameras anymore. IMHO, his only interest is to make propaganda for Sony against Pentax.

Are there some moderators on this forum?
I'm no fan of Sony, but I was in a large branch of this country's leading department store this afternoon (John Lewis) and took a look at their camera department. They had a reasonable selection for such a store. FF meant Sony A7, Canon 6D and Canon 5D Mk 111. APS-C meant a selection of Nikon and Canon DSLRs, pretty much the whole range of Fuji cameras and some NEX cameras, also Samsung cameras I think. They also had an array of m43 cameras like the Panasonic G series and the Olympus OMD series. There were no Pentax cameras, alas. Is that knocking them? It is stating a fact, though. You can buy the Ricoh GR or the K50, K500 and K3 on their website, but they don't stock them in B&M it seems. Or not the stores I've visited. I've noticed the same at another of their branches in London. Why, I wonder?

You can make of this what you will but I'll just note from this store's selection (which will be replicated in their other big branches) that FF is going mainstream, the winners at this store are Sony, Canon and Fuji, and mirrorless is as well represented as DSLR right up the scale. John Lewis are range-buyers like most in their business: they only take what they consider to be the best (and best-selling) examples from any given range of products. By and large, they don't stock what does not sell, from jeans and jumpers to kettles, shoes, TVs, PCs and cameras. For myself, I find brand-trolling extremely tiresome but at the same time it's quite important to realize what's going on out there, in the world, and not just in Pentax-land. What's sexy and is drawing people in, what captures the zeitgeist? I'd say right now it's products from Sony, Fuji and Olympus. Maybe those companies will all come crashing down in flames, but they are on the shelves and Pentax isn't. Not stocked, no sales.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if Pentax do want to be in there, and stocked and selling, then they need an FF camera and a mirrorless system. Or both at once. And they need to start sounding sexy, for want of a better word. Something desirable and perhaps even fun to have (gasp) which, yes, captures ye olde zeitgeist. Is that knocking them? To me it is stating a fact, Otherwise, not stocked, no sales. It's a completely ruthless retailing world out there.

And one thing that's increasingly going on is folks owning multiple systems from different manufacturers, hence perhaps the wide range of references to other brands across most of the threads in this forum. It's mix 'n' match these days.

Last edited by mecrox; 07-24-2014 at 03:41 PM.
07-24-2014, 01:05 PM   #383
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Pentax marketing strategy, which we all new that needs improvement is one thing.

But I think that this thread's name can be changed to ''Buy Sony instead of Pentax, because 3 (Pentax?) users want so''

07-24-2014, 01:23 PM   #384
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
The answer to this question is difficult. I wonder some time why a very small numbers of people are so persistent in propagating that Sony A7 on this forum? What's their purpose? One of them even recognize that his newest Pentax is a K20, but he has a A7, so, we can say he is not interested in Pentax cameras anymore. IMHO, his only interest is to make propaganda for Sony against Pentax.

Are there some moderators on this forum?
It looks like people from Romania have a problem with thread titles like this one ... "PENTAX will never have Full Frame... ".
07-24-2014, 02:09 PM   #385
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Pentax marketing strategy, which we all new that needs improvement is one thing.

But I think that this thread's name can be changed to ''Buy Sony instead of Pentax, because 3 (Pentax?) users want so''
Why call for moderators? Why opine that a K20d is no longer sufficient credibility to be heard on Pentaxforums? Those suggesting that Sony's A7/x are mighty fine cameras are in essence saying that the future is largely mirrorless - which is one valid point of view.
07-24-2014, 03:02 PM   #386
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I'm one man, not many. And I'm a moderator on another forum, with more than 1700 members for more than 7 years. And I know when things starts to go wild on a forum, because few people think that their opinion must be embraced by everyone. And they keep pushing their ideas over and over, until they annoy other members. That's exactly what is happening here.
07-24-2014, 03:08 PM   #387
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyeswideshut Quote
Why call for moderators? Why opine that a K20d is no longer sufficient credibility to be heard on Pentaxforums? Those suggesting that Sony's A7/x are mighty fine cameras are in essence saying that the future is largely mirrorless - which is one valid point of view.
And this - the pro Sony/MILC propaganda - is exactly the problem.

There's a time and a place for everything. The time for MILC dominance is not now, nor in the near future (too much ground to recover). The place for MILC/Sony propaganda is not here, on Pentaxforums - a forum mostly dedicated to people who choose DSLRs.

People should be allowed to make a choice and enjoy it.
07-24-2014, 03:43 PM   #388
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
There's a time and a place for everything.
And the subforum that talks about a non-existent future camera is that place.
07-24-2014, 03:47 PM   #389
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This subforum is about a yet non-existent Pentax camera. Existing Sony cameras and dreams about MILC domination belongs elsewhere.
07-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #390
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And this - the pro Sony/MILC propaganda - is exactly the problem.

There's a time and a place for everything. The time for MILC dominance is not now, nor in the near future (too much ground to recover). The place for MILC/Sony propaganda is not here, on Pentaxforums - a forum mostly dedicated to people who choose DSLRs.

People should be allowed to make a choice and enjoy it.
Since when does the utterance of an opinion regarding an as yet non existant camera deprive you of the liberty to "make a choice and enjoy it"?

Last edited by eyeswideshut; 07-24-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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