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07-24-2014, 04:26 PM   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And this - the pro Sony/MILC propaganda - is exactly the problem.

There's a time and a place for everything. The time for MILC dominance is not now, nor in the near future (too much ground to recover). The place for MILC/Sony propaganda is not here, on Pentaxforums - a forum mostly dedicated to people who choose DSLRs.

People should be allowed to make a choice and enjoy it.
Ricoh knows that full frame DSLRs are a small niche compared to the worldwide camera market and since they are in the business of making money they will let Canon and Nikon fight it out and not bleed red ink for the sake of having a FF Pentax DSLR for the few that did not already make the switch to current available full frame cameras.

07-24-2014, 04:29 PM   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Ricoh knows that full frame DSLRs are a small niche compared to the worldwide camera market and since they are in the business of making money they will let Canon and Nikon fight it out and not bleed red ink for the sake of having a FF Pentax DSLR for the few that did not already make the switch to current available full frame cameras.
Oh ok..
07-24-2014, 04:41 PM   #393
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To make a choice and enjoy can be problematic if someone is repeating obsessively his arguments, which are mostly subjective. Maybe a better argument could be some photos made with those ''wonderful'' MILC cameras. But what can I see? Thousands of messages, but not one photo. At least in the album or gallery section.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 07-24-2014 at 05:14 PM.
07-24-2014, 04:48 PM   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Ricoh knows that full frame DSLRs are a small niche compared to the worldwide camera market and since they are in the business of making money they will let Canon and Nikon fight it out and not bleed red ink for the sake of having a FF Pentax DSLR for the few that did not already make the switch to current available full frame cameras.
"First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production."

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/201538-dc-watch-int...#ixzz38QtssBXy

07-24-2014, 04:55 PM   #395
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Yes lets not spread propaganda about existing cameras, which people use and get fantastic results from...let's fawn over a pretend, unicorn camera that doesn't exist
07-24-2014, 05:00 PM   #396
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Precisely; that's the purpose of this area (a secondary purpose being to gather information about Pentax' ongoing FF project). It was made to remove the FF noise from other areas; and now it's filled itself with other kind of noise.
For the much beloved (by some) Sony, there's the non-Pentax cameras area.
07-24-2014, 05:01 PM   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Ricoh knows that full frame DSLRs are a small niche compared to the worldwide camera market and since they are in the business of making money they will let Canon and Nikon fight it out and not bleed red ink for the sake of having a FF Pentax DSLR for the few that did not already make the switch to current available full frame cameras.
Although that could be true, and it must be true that Ricoh are in the business of making money, one can see how the logic of that can be extended to just about anything. "Oh, most of our customers who want a product like this have already left the brand so we'll keep away and leave it to X and Y to duke it out then. There's not a chance we'll ever attract any new customers." Pretty soon, under that logic, the only customer left would be Ebenezer Sixpack aged 103 and his collection of 1970s manual focus lenses, slightly dented. There are six or seven other major camera-makers, and doing virtually anything is going to involve fighting it out with some of them. It's a bit hard to see how anyone could remain in the business of making money unless they make some bets on the cameras which are most likely to be in demand and profitable over the next few years, and get stuck in big time. Aren't we all waiting for Ricoh to play their hand? Backing off at the first sign of Canon, Nikon or Sony, or Fuji, Olympus or Panasonic, isn't much of a hand. Thing is, pretty well any particular kind of camera is a small niche when set against the worldwide camera market.

Last edited by mecrox; 07-26-2014 at 01:53 AM.
07-24-2014, 05:12 PM   #398
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The mistake in that thinking - one I'm sure Ricoh is not making - is that it's implicitly assuming a static user base; as in: there's a finite pool of FF buyers and soon there won't be any left. That's obviously not the case, new people are entering the DSLR market, preferences and/or requirements will change over time - those jumping ship are replaced.

07-24-2014, 05:34 PM   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Yes lets not spread propaganda about existing cameras, which people use and get fantastic results from...let's fawn over a pretend, unicorn camera that doesn't exist
Well, if there is a place where people are invited and have the opportunity to talk about this unicorn, which might or might not materialise in this or that form, then it's this subforum. There might be some more, some less substantiated ideas, considerations and if-then statements, fair enough especially at this place.
As nice and useful as it is to hear from various people that they actually went another route which covers their needs better i still don't see any reason that this should become a predominant topic here. But thats just my lurkers opinion, you can disagree and do it your way, of course.
07-24-2014, 06:04 PM   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
Read the newly added section on 645z:PENTAX 645Z Stories by Engineers / PENTAX 645Z Special site | RICOH IMAGING

especially section 03:
The highest ISO sensitivity of PENTAX 645Z is ISO 204800, which is 128 times of the sensitivity of PENTAX 645D, ISO 1600. Namely, as the competitor, we see 35-mm full frame cameras rather than medium format cameras offered by other companies. Though it is just a matter of sensitivity, we always had the stringent stance in developing the [standard sensitivity] instead of the [extended sensitivity]. Ultimately, the judge is human eyes. We see the border line between the permissible range and the impermissible range. A big chance to show our skill was found in moving this line to expand the permissible range. Consequently, we imagine that consumers will be able to shoot objects which could not be shot so far or objects of which shooting had to be given up. With this model, we expect that pictures nobody has ever seen can be taken one after another. It is right that new pictures can be taken with a high-sensitivity camera. Moreover, if such a high-sensitivity camera is used with a low-sensitivity setting, the low-sensitivity image quality is very excellent because the camera has the remaining capacity to the upper limit.

They put 645Z as a like-135 full-frame but can offer much more (of course). If you read the whole intro to the 645z maybe you feel the same. They don't bother with 135, they basically said, we have MF, why bother 135!

That's it.
In a way I feel bad for Pentax not taking part in the FF race.
Then again, I have hope that they will make a move when the mirrorless era takes hold.
07-24-2014, 06:33 PM - 1 Like   #401
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The thing is, some people wouldn't mind seeing a FF MILC Pentax. And somehow that is twisted into being called "propaganda". How is imaginary FF DSLR a valid topic and yet imaginary FF MILC considered propaganda?
07-24-2014, 07:11 PM   #402
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Dunno. I'd like either. Probably prefer a dslr but a milc would be ok too.
07-24-2014, 11:35 PM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
The thing is, some people wouldn't mind seeing a FF MILC Pentax. And somehow that is twisted into being called "propaganda". How is imaginary FF DSLR a valid topic and yet imaginary FF MILC considered propaganda?
One "like the A7r"?
There's a difference between someone who doesn't mind seeing a FF MILC Pentax, and making a point in "saying that the future is largely mirrorless". Obviously, not every post mentioning a Sony or MILC is bad or off-topic; but I do question the intention of those who said themselves they have no interest in Pentax products, and are promoting Sony heavily.

And now, I'll quote Mr. Kitazawa again: "First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production."
Which is more imaginary, the FF MILC or the FF DSLR?
07-25-2014, 12:35 AM   #404
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
One "like the A7r"?
There's a difference between someone who doesn't mind seeing a FF MILC Pentax, and making a point in "saying that the future is largely mirrorless". Obviously, not every post mentioning a Sony or MILC is bad or off-topic; but I do question the intention of those who said themselves they have no interest in Pentax products, and are promoting Sony heavily.

And now, I'll quote Mr. Kitazawa again: "First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production."
Which is more imaginary, the FF MILC or the FF DSLR?
Are you done with your thread policing?
07-25-2014, 01:05 AM   #405
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I'm all for an end of thread-policing by someone who's not part of the staff.

Pentax will issue a FF camera - no doubt in my mind. I'm just lobbying for the mirrorless FF from Pentax that i would prefer. I have no problems with others lobbying for the FF frame DSLRs they would buy. Feedback, both positive and negative, is very important to the not only the growth of a photographer but also to a camera mfr.
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